Last ditch effort- any suggestions?

[nycowgirl]

I had a calf born late Sunday night. By the truck headlights, the baby looked like it was covered in iodine- I figured it had pooped in the sac. Monday afternoon I figured out it hadn't nursed- the whole cow was covered in suck marks about the heighth of the baby's neck. The calf was down and weak. She also has a cloudy eye. My father is wondering if she can see at all. I tubed it (my first time- Yikes!) with colostrum. About 6 hours later I gave it about a pint of milk replacer and it was strong enough to get up and move around again. So off to making suck marks on momma again. Tuesday morning it became apparent things were not going well and I started bottle feeding it full rations. It was still with momma cow. Yesterday I noticed it's knees appeared swollen so I immediately called the vet. The vet didn't think the cord appeared swollen at all. The calf had no fever, and the vet said she saw a "septic line" along her gum line. The baby is now on Excenel (5cc daily for at least 7 days, possibly 14). She told me to keep her belly full while she is sick, and thought she'd end up a bottle baby. I have to watch her knees and add pennacillin to the medicine regimine if the puffy knees dont go down in 3 days.
I was able to get the calf and cow into the barn late last night. The calf is still on the bottle and still making suck marks all over the cow. If I could just push her head down about 6 inches, she'd have it! I tried that (again ) this morning with an ax handle in my hand and had to bop the cow between the eyes just to stop her from walking over top of me. The cow is fine when I come in to feed the calf- she just does not want me near her. I am happy to report the calf appears to be doing better and eagerly nurses and interacts with her momma. The cow still pays a lot of attention to the calf.

At this point I believe I will have to have the cow processed as she surely is headed for mastitis. She is HUGE. I don't have a chute and this cow won't be squeezed with a gate.
I have priced a "poorman's chute" as the sales man said- a headgate with pannels and a sliding rear gate (priefert). That is $1700. That is in stock. Tractor supply has Powder River Chutes (about 1700$) but there is not one in stock in NY and won't be anytime soon.

I am wondering if anyone has any suggestions to contain my cow.
Also, if I bought the poorman's chute, do you think it would serve my very small cow operation long term? I know the chute is something I really need, I just didn't plan on the purchase until 2007. I guess that is what my Visa card is for.
I also have a problem with none of this stuff being readily available in NY.
Thanks in advance for any advice!
Amy

 

[milkmaid]

Sounds like the cow isn't too flighty -- get a rope around her neck and snub her up. Haul the calf over and show the calf where to drink. If neccessary bring a panel over while the cow is snubbed and squeeze her.

Problem solved.

Re the cow -- big udder and a lot of milk does not neccessarily equal mastitis just because she isn't being nursed. Makes it more likely, but it isn't a certainty.

Now onto the calf. Joint infections are not always found with a navel infection. Sounds like that may be the case.

I had a calf with a joint infection that I ended up having to put down, and ever since then I've thought about what I'd do if I found myself in the same situation again.

I think I'd use dexamethasone for its anti-inflammatory properties to bring down the swelling in the joints, heavy antibiotic therapy... and then I discovered a new thing recently that might be valuable in this case. It's called Immunoboost and designed to stimulate their immune system - could only help the calf IMO.

For horses they make Equine IgG to give foals that did not get to nurse and did not get colostrum in time. I've been told there's something similar for calves that would be given IV as well and might be useful for this calf; check with your vet and see what s/he says.

Of course price does factor into the whole discussion -- what's this calf worth to you? don't mess with the calf forever either -- been there done that, not doing it again.

 

[nycowgirl]

What I gave the calf was IgG.

I don't think I could get a rope on this cow.

Dexamethasone- does that have to come from a vet?

 

[cfpinz]

Find a helper, or two would be better. If you can get her in the barn you can get a rope on her. Tie her to a pole or something sturdy, may want to pass the rope under itself on her neck and up over her nose so you don't completely choke her. Have someone crowd her against the wall with a gate or whatever you have. From your discription, it sounds as if the teats may have gotten so big the calf may not be able to latch onto them. Milk them down by hand or you can use milking tubes inserted in the teats to drain them, my suggestion is the latter. And tie a piece of bright ribbon on the outer end of the tubes before insertion as they will fly all over the barn when the cow kicks and they are impossible to find in hay/manure. Once you get the teats down to a manageable size, hold the calf up to them, get him started on your finger and transfer one into his mouth. You might have to hold his mouth open with one hand and squirt milk in it with the other. He should figure it out. And keep a 2x4 handy, don't be afraid to use it on the cow, the calf will thank you later.

When I was a kid, both my grandpas ran a fair amount of cattle, neither of which ever owned a headgate or chute. Believe me, you can do about anything you want with a rope and some muscle.

If you truly want to help this calf and put your mind to it, you can get it done.

Good Luck

cfpinz

 

[milkmaid]

From your discription, it sounds as if the teats may have gotten so big the calf may not be able to latch onto them. Milk them down by hand or you can use milking tubes inserted in the teats to drain them,

I'd be very reluctant to do that. Putting anything up the teat canal can introduce bacteria thereby starting mastitis. Cow doesn't HAVE to be milked to start with; if neccessary get one front quarter down to size where the calf can make use of it, but there's no need to milk all quarters completely dry.

When I was a kid, both my grandpas ran a fair amount of cattle, neither of which ever owned a headgate or chute. Believe me, you can do about anything you want with a rope and some muscle.

:lol: That's for sure. I don't have a chute on the place -- and where there's a will there is a way.

Dex is a prescription drug -- as is Excenel.

 

[twabscs]

Also, if I bought the poorman's chute, do you think it would serve my very small cow operation long term? I know the chute is something I really need, I just didn't plan on the purchase until 2007. I guess that is what my Visa card is for.

The "poorman" chute will do you fine. I looked at both the (Priefert) S01 and S04 when I purchased my chute earlier this year. I bought the S04, but in hind sight, I would have been fine with the S01 ($1700). I have the auto-catch, but I've yet to figure it out nor had the need to use it.

I've had cows (and calves) now for four months and what the regulars always say, "Get your facilities in order before you get the cows" is absolutely true. However, one positive of getting the cows first, is that it ensures that facilities move to the very top of your priorities, at least it has for me. I now see all of the issues around my place. Need more fence, better lanes, more gates, more water, etc.

Edit: I re-read your post and it seems you are talking about the WA-1 from Priefert, which is some panels hooked to a headgate. That will work too, but you can get a real squeeze for around $1700 (the S01), which I would do if you can.


Tom

 

[Chris H]

For the person with a few cows, or thousands of cows, a calving pen with a built-in headgate is a life-saver. Here is an example, and priced lower than the one you quoted, http://townsendequipment.com/catalo...d=264&osCsid=a42a406d5dd36450672a24e16c9ea6f1 The lower portion of the squeeze opens to allow the calf to nurse, something our regular chute won't do.

We have a similar one bought at Tractor Supply. We also have a regular chute with headgate. We quite often use the calving pen to vaccinate our cows due to its location. It's slower than running them through the other facility, but it works quite well.

 

[twabscs]

We have a place here in MO called Feldman's (Farm Supply Chain) that handles Priefert equipment. Their prices are around 28% off the price listed on Priefert's website. When I was looking for a chute, I called Priefert and checked out all of the dealers within 40 miles or so. Feldman's had the best prices and they were $1749 for the S01 and $2562 for the S04 with auto-catch. I eventually purchased the S04 and this was about 3 months ago.

Last week I priced out the OS-4 sweep and alley but didn't get as good a price because they would only sell it via individual pieces, but they had all of it in stock. However, I'm pretty sure if I go in and pick out all of the pieces for the OS-4 at once, they would give me some additional discount. We'll see.

Tom

 

[twabscs]

Yeah, it was strange that Feldman's was so inexpensive. The closest any of the other dealers got on that price was a place called Orscheln Farm & Home (another chain), lots of them around here. They had the S01 for $1999 and the S04 for $2999 but it would take 30-days to order it, etc. The Big Valley I looked at was $3500 so I thought the S04 was an excellent deal after calling around to lots of places. Been really happy with it so far.

 

[nycowgirl]

Update:
I got a rope around the cow's neck tonight and tied her to a post in the barn. She about choked herself out ( I couldn't get it around her nose too) so I had to let off. Then I had the unpleasant task of trying to get the rope off her neck. After that I tried to run a couple strands of electric to contain her in one end of the barn. She went through that. (She is a huge red angus)
My boyfriend showed up tonight with a portable chute he borrowed. We will try that tomorrow night.
On the bright side, the calf is doing well and is quite frisky and is still trying to find the teat.

No tractor supply store in NY has a chute in stock. Imagine that!

 

[milkmaid]

Update:
I got a rope around the cow's neck tonight and tied her to a post in the barn. She about choked herself out ( I couldn't get it around her nose too) so I had to let off. Then I had the unpleasant task of trying to get the rope off her neck. After that I tried to run a couple strands of electric to contain her in one end of the barn. She went through that. (She is a huge red angus)

Don't worry about choking her. Seriously. Two or three wraps around a post gives you the leverage you need to be able to hold her, and from there...shucks, I've seen them down on their knees and gasping for air before they'll give in. Don't like to do that if I don't have to though.

Oh, and you need the cow snubbed to the post to get the rope off. ;-) Otherwise...I wouldn't even try to get the rope off if I didn't have some way of holding onto them too (rope around post).

 

[Bama]

Pull up some bleachers as this is gonna be fun, expecially after its been done once. Best thing to do is to get her up in the chute but your gonna need a good working pen leading into it. Hot wire won't hold one in confinement. Next best thing to do Is get her back in the barn. Take a rope and put about a inch and a half brass ring over it. On one end tie on a panic snap like the ones you get for horses. Make sure its a good one and won't come loose until ready. Pick out a post close to a gate. Tie another rope low, about 2 feet off the ground and run it out to the center of the hallway. Feed her in barn and get the gates closed. Wearing gloves snap the panic snap onto the slidding ring and rope her with it throw a quick half hitch over her nose and snub her to the post before she realizes what is going on. Now take the rope that is tied to the post and run it through the gate and then back to the post, pull this tight and you have her caught. You can use a sling in place of the gate and it will make it easier for the calf to nurse. I can't stress enough don't get your hand caught in a loop of the rope and wear gloves. She has figured out how to get away before and is gonna try it again. As Milkmaid said she may choke down. With the ring its easy to relieve the pressure. The panic snap will aid in releasing her.

 

[msscamp]

Update:
I got a rope around the cow's neck tonight and tied her to a post in the barn. She about choked herself out ( I couldn't get it around her nose too) so I had to let off. Then I had the unpleasant task of trying to get the rope off her neck. After that I tried to run a couple strands of electric to contain her in one end of the barn. She went through that. (She is a huge red angus)

Don't worry about choking her. Seriously. Two or three wraps around a post gives you the leverage you need to be able to hold her, and from there...shucks, I've seen them down on their knees and gasping for air before they'll give in. Don't like to do that if I don't have to though.

Oh, and you need the cow snubbed to the post to get the rope off. ;-) Otherwise...I wouldn't even try to get the rope off if I didn't have some way of holding onto them too (rope around post).

Milkmaid, exactly how does one get a rope off a cow that is snubbed up to a post? :???: I'm missing something here. We have a chute so I have not had the pleasure of trying to get a rope off of an uncooperative animal - for those of you who may be wondering, no, our cattle are not roped, either.

 

[cowpunk'd]

How frustrating! Once you have the cow snubbed to the post you can put a halter on her, tie her with that so she doesn't choke. Take the rope off. Then you can leave the halter on her if you think you'll be catching her again. If you have that calf sucking a bottle, get him sucking good on the bottle up next to the cow. Pass the bottle to someone on the other side of the cow, passing the bottle under the udder. You now have him sucking at the right height, with the bottles nipple right next to the teats. You can lure him onto the teat with the nipple. I'm sorry if your cow kicks your head off.

 

[Beefy]

Every time i read a post like this i just sit here and shake my head. i'm sorry, but i do. people, you have GOT to have some kind of way to restrain your cattle. not only for your sake but for theirs too. At this point it sounds like somebody is just going to get hurt. Surely SURELY you have some sort of a lane ( i mean you would have to to load them to sell, right?) you could borrow or rent a headgate to put at the end to catch the cow. or even load the cow to take her somewhere with a headgate? (it will probably only take one time to get the calf on the teat to teach her where its at). if this is not possible then just let the poor cow out and bottle feed the calf. assuming the cows teats arent too big for a calf to get on her calf next year shouldnt have a problem finding the right place.

i know this sounds lame but has worked before. when you bottle feed make the calf work to find the teat. put the bottle up against your leg, angled down like a cow. move around and make the calf find it again. make him work for it. then let him go hungry if he is strong enough and see if he can find the real thing. if he is reaching up higher on the cow than the teat then put your bottle lower when your feed.

 

[WORANCH]

Every time i read a post like this i just sit here and shake my head. i'm sorry, but i do. people, you have GOT to have some kind of way to restrain your cattle. not only for your sake but for theirs too. At this point it sounds like somebody is just going to get hurt. Surely SURELY you have some sort of a lane ( i mean you would have to to load them to sell, right?) you could borrow or rent a headgate to put at the end to catch the cow. or even load the cow to take her somewhere with a headgate? (it will probably only take one time to get the calf on the teat to teach her where its at). if this is not possible then just let the poor cow out and bottle feed the calf. assuming the cows teats arent too big for a calf to get on her calf next year shouldnt have a problem finding the right place.

i know this sounds lame but has worked before. when you bottle feed make the calf work to find the teat. put the bottle up against your leg, angled down like a cow. move around and make the calf find it again. make him work for it. then let him go hungry if he is strong enough and see if he can find the real thing. if he is reaching up higher on the cow than the teat then put your bottle lower when your feed.

I agree with beefy . surly someone has a headgate you can use or better yet buy one .Build a wooden ally way and put the headgate on it .
Spending 4 or 5 hundred bucks will be a lot cheaper than a hospital bill when a cow runs over you .

 

[Beefy]

i dont care if you buy the most expensive headgate on the market. it will pay for itself, i promise you.

 

[milkmaid]

Milkmaid, exactly how does one get a rope off a cow that is snubbed up to a post? :???: I'm missing something here. We have a chute so I have not had the pleasure of trying to get a rope off of an uncooperative animal - for those of you who may be wondering, no, our cattle are not roped, either.

It can be done like cowpunk'd said - put the halter on, take rope off, undo halter, let cow loose. Or, as a general rule, once they've been snubbed up and decided to respect the rope, they may not stand perfectly still, but they'll usually stand long enough without pulling back that you can get a little bit of slack in the rope and flip the loop off their head. Did that working one cow just the other day.

If they aren't attached to something I don't see how you could get a rope off an uncooperative cow that doesn't want you anywhere near -- you could spend forever playing chase-the-cow.

FWIW, I have round pens, panels, and a lane that once led to a chute (sold the ancient chute itself a few years ago), so I have facilities I can work with and fences that I keep in good working order. Just no chute. But honestly, it's not really neccessary. Handy, yes, neccessary, no.

Boss and I ran an IV on a cow in the stock trailer the other night before letting her back in with the herd... I gave a handful of drugs to a cow the other day after running her behind a panel... shucks, if I can, alone, give 40cc's of Pennicillin SC, Banamine, and Vitamin B Complex to a cow while she's only cornered behind a panel, don't tell ME a person can't get a fresh cow roped and squeezed so they can show a calf where to drink. Where there's a will there's a way.

 

[msscamp]

I'm not going to argue with the 'Where there is a will, there is a way' outlook because I agree 100%, I just couldn't figure out the getting the rope off a cow snubbed to a post thing. I think I'll stick to a chute, it's a whole lot less trouble and much more reliable - for a multitude of things.

 

[randiliana]

[I gave a handful of drugs to a cow the other day after running her behind a panel... shucks, if I can, alone, give 40cc's of Pennicillin SC, Banamine, and Vitamin B Complex to a cow while she's only cornered behind a panel, don't tell ME a person can't get a fresh cow roped and squeezed so they can show a calf where to drink. Where there's a will there's a way.

Heck, that is what we used to use to calve cows out with. We would squeeze them up against a wall/fence with a panel, run a rope around behind and tie it until we could get a halter on the cow and tie her to the post in front of her. I was out there alone one night doing this with a nutcase heifer that wanted to kill her calf. I pinned her up, got a halter on her and snubbed her up then got a rope on her hind leg and stretched her out. Got the calf sucking (at least it got colostrum) which didn't do any good anyway as the cow still wanted to kill it the next day. It CAN be done, you just have to be careful you don't get kicked. Now we have a headgate at the one end, but we still catch them the same way, by swinging a gate around on them, even if they don't go in the headgate, you can still get a rope or halter on them!!!