Ohlde's bull sale just happened this weekend. One of the most "famous" angus breeders in the country that seems to have a complete disregard for EPDs other than $EN. Very interesting. I can't say that they even did all the genomic testing from what I could tell. Then you see other programs like SAV and Coleman that seem to have a similar disregard - but perhaps not to the same extent. Who else would produce and use a bull like Charlo to that extent and be successful doing it!!?!?!
Ohlde vs EPDS
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there are many who have the ability and knowledge of how to mate animals to produce superior animals. How many hundreds of years since cattle where domesticated did man survive without using epds?
They are nothing more then a marketing gimmick. Nothing more then a fancy mathematical equation based on something no one can explain
They are nothing more then a marketing gimmick. Nothing more then a fancy mathematical equation based on something no one can explain
alacowman1
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I'm a OCC advocate ...
alacowman1
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The first time I past a herd of Ohlde bred cattle I knew what they were ,
before I talked to the owner...
before I talked to the owner...faster horses
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All cattle do. What are the holes in Ohldes program? I knew someone who went there once but I can't remember what he said about it. I think maybe it was that it was different than he expected.
Lee VanRoss
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Your right to bear arms and not use Ohlde cattle shall not be infringed. Popularity is intrinsic and subject to personal idiosyncrasies.
GoWyo
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My experience they can be slow growing and have to be developed right on a grower ration or they will finish out too light. The females make nice cows for a female base and are easy to power up a little for more conventional feeding cattle.
BFE
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Feet
I will caveat my statement by saying that I have limited first hand experience with Ohlde bred cattle, although I own a few. His name in a pedigree will represent from a true maternal style cow (OCC Homer) to verging on the terminal without huge frame (OCC Anchor). My bloodlines come through OCC Unlimited, an inbred OCC Linebred son. (Thank you Ronnie Shelby) I've had second hand experience with docility issues, feet issues, and fertility issues in some of the lines. One would think that cattle that flesh so easily would be more fertile, but this isn't always the case. Having said all this, I'm using the blood across predominately Wye and Pinebank lines to bring in a third "outcross" for a little heterosis across some very tight gene pools, without changing type too much. I like what I'm seeing so far for moderate cows being extremely efficient in a low energy environment.
kentuckyguy
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simme
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EPDs - "They are nothing more than a marketing gimmick. Nothing more than a fancy mathematical equation based on something no one can explain."
An alternate opinion. That statement might be a little extreme. As far as "no one can explain", the same might be said about ethernet communications, internet network routing, GPS route calculations, digital tv transmission, etc. They can be explained, just that the science is complex and may take a lot of education to gain the understanding. The science of EPD's is based on direct measurements or evaluations. Shortcoming is when there is limited data. Problem in their application is that people expect them to be perfect when they are in fact only a scientific prediction with accuracy limited by the amount of data. Sort of like the weather forecast or expected arrival time from Maps for a two day trip. Not 100% accurate, but far better than a Ouija board.
Marketing gimmick is like buy one, get one free or double coupon value on Tuesday.
An alternate opinion. That statement might be a little extreme. As far as "no one can explain", the same might be said about ethernet communications, internet network routing, GPS route calculations, digital tv transmission, etc. They can be explained, just that the science is complex and may take a lot of education to gain the understanding. The science of EPD's is based on direct measurements or evaluations. Shortcoming is when there is limited data. Problem in their application is that people expect them to be perfect when they are in fact only a scientific prediction with accuracy limited by the amount of data. Sort of like the weather forecast or expected arrival time from Maps for a two day trip. Not 100% accurate, but far better than a Ouija board.
Marketing gimmick is like buy one, get one free or double coupon value on Tuesday.
Ebenezer
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I have not looked lately but some years back the AAA sire publication had a number of OCC bulls. A common trait in EPDs in those "foundation" or highly used bulls was -CE in the daughters. Then you add in the -YH. I know of the feet issue. I never got some of the OCC cattle to ever respond to breed to a bigger bull and produce a bigger or taller calf. Their calves never hit the marketing target for me. I hear about the "guard the bull" comments from some who have used a well known bull from there that I would have used years ago. DOC is apparently an issue in some. Fat cows are not fertile cows in my experience. The gaining of 25+ pounds a year until they go into early menopause leaves you with a sound, infertile cow by 10YO or younger. That is a waste of 5 years in my opinion and experience.
Like Dan said, there are some outlier genetics in that herd that are useful. The expensive part is learning which ones to use! But he gave you a big hint!
Like Dan said, there are some outlier genetics in that herd that are useful. The expensive part is learning which ones to use! But he gave you a big hint!
BFE
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BFE
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My experience with OCC is very limited. I have seen questionable feet on a seven year old bull. However he was still in production.
BFE
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We had this discussion last year about this time. Sharing your experience was good input. Thank you.
The OCC program is all about "predictability". Tim's brags that he already knows what he is going get before he does the mating. We had a couple that we flushed to Meyer 734 to get steer mamas. They aren't big egg producers, they will get fat on air but they work great to bring down frame and add guts to any exotic bull.
Son of Butch
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Or Schiefelbein's "Buy our bulls and we will bid on his calves when auctioned."
alacowman1
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