Updating Pasture Cost per lb. DM & Mob Magic

[Stocker Steve]

I am reviewing inputs and updating my cost of production. Seems like the "good old days" of renting pasture for $0.01 / pound are behind me. My quick calculation showed more like $0.02 per pound. I found a detailed 2011 Iowa "Maintaining Grass Pastures - Annual Cost per Acre" sheet which showed $131 to $151 per acre. At 3 to 4 tons per acre that comes out to $0.016 to $0.025 per lb DM. So we are both in the same range for what I could consider a high input MIG system...

Am I missing something here ??? Seems like some of that old time mob grazing magic may be the ticket (after a couple years to get the soil activated...).

So have you tried a low input mob system- - and was there also a lower stocking rate the first year or two while you are stomping in 50 to 70% of the forage ???

 

[Hoosier Pete]

Gonna try some of it this year. Stocking rate will remain the same but the density will go up. Talking to one of the guys that has been doing it awhile and he suggested to start it's a good idea to keep density from 75,000 to 100,000 per Ac. Goes up from there depending on what you are trying to do at that particular point in time.

 

[agmantoo]

I do intensive rotational grazing and I do it 365 days per year. I put more pounds of animals than the recommendation above on less than an acre most every day. Here is the herd today on approximately 1 acre. Some of the cattle have gone to water when this was taken.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I have often wondered how you go about controlling traffic patterns to and from the water source in a system like yours agmantoo?

 

[novatech]

I have often wondered how you go about controlling traffic patterns to and from the water source in a system like yours agmantoo?

A man in our area uses a lick tub for 55 head. With intensive grazing on small sections it is not necessary for large troughs as the cattle do not travel as a group to get water. They instead will water individually as needed.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

You lost me Nova. My observation of the cattle on the family farm has been that the consume an enormous amount of water. Are you saying the fellow you mentioned waters from a shallow tub?

Thanks

 

[BC]

If it is the place I think Novatech was describing, he uses a lick tub with a automatic float attached. The man has run pvc pipe underground to all paddocks. He moves the tub as he moves the cattle.

 

[agmantoo]

I have often wondered how you go about controlling traffic patterns to and from the water source in a system like yours agmantoo?

I am opposed to unnecessary work for me so at this location I let the cattle walk. They will travel back across where they previously grazed and they take a hike down a dedicated lane to a small pond. Within a few more days I will reverse their travel pattern. There is water in the direction they are being moved to new grass. What I will do is a temporary polywire fence will be left behind them and a polwire fence will be in front of them also. I will let them graze for 4 hours or so and then take the polywire in front of them down and they will go to water as a herd. Once they vacate the paddock I will put a polywire fence in place to then allow the cattle to reverse the direction of travel to new grass. They will then be moving right to left in the pic and back traveling to water on the far right side of the pic. I do this effort to cut their travel distance as I have not yet installed a central watering system at that location because of terrain issues.

 

[BC]

Here is a YouTube segment on the half-barrel watering system that I was trying to describe earlier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAqHLQUi ... re=related

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Interesting information. Thank you gentlemen.

 

[Anonymous]

More power to you. Moving animals every 4 hrs is too much work for me

 

[agmantoo]

hooknline

The move is a 15 minute one time deal for the paddock they are in. I
feel that I am well compensated for my efforts and that the small effort is justifiable so I do not mind doing it.

 

[Dave]

The move is a 15 minute one time deal for the paddock they are in. I
feel that I am well compensated for my efforts and that the small effort is justifiable so I do not mind doing it.

I agree. 15 minutes to move them once a day and there is a long list of benefits. Some of those benefits end up saving me a lot more time than the 15 minutes took.

 

[Anonymous]

How many times a day do you move them? Every 4 hours would be 6 times a day. But more likely 4 times a day. If so you sown one hour a day just moving cattle?

 

[agmantoo]

hooknline

Once every 24 hours the herd is moved, usually around 2 PM this time of year. The time spent is roughly 15 minutes. I install polywire to separate the herd from what they are allotted to graze the next 24 hours from the grass that will be fed in the near future. I also take down the polywire from the prior day's use. I multi task while doing this and check the herd for any issues. The cattle are calm and are easy to control as they are very accustomed to the schedule. I also keep the polywire partition hot wire rather high so the calves can graze ahead and eat the best of the forage. No hay or grain is fed. You should give this method a consideration. It should be a cake walk with central Florida's growing conditions.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I agree that more moves is good, cattle can get used to more moves, and high density is divine.

My question is that have you been able to reduce the cost of pasture forage by doing this ???

 

[regolith]

You're going to grow more grass doing this. Thusly, if you have no set-up costs or extra labour to cover, your cost per unit of grass will be less.

I'd like some-one familiar with mob grazing to clarify the 'trampling into the dirt' comment - I know I've heard that said before, but wasting grass is no part of my system and I don't see it as being part of what agmantoo or SRbeef or anyone else practising rotational grazing and posting photos does.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I'd like some-one familiar with mob grazing to clarify the 'trampling into the dirt' comment - I know I've heard that said before, but wasting grass is no part of my system

1) The basic idea is that the soil is alive and you need to reduce purchased inputs. If you get forage residual in contact with the soil you will create a micro climate (more mositure retained and more shade and more nutrients and more worms and ), and the (non linear) response will make your operation sustainlable. If you have great soil OM and lots of rain and a cool climate than this may be of little value. If chemical inputs are overpriced this may be of great value.
2) The associated assumption is that you are increasing the rest period/shortening the grazing period, which also increases the root mass and biological activity. Thinking below the surface is key, and I missed this initially.
3) The third thing is that you are either making moves every couple hours, or top animal performance is not needed. Pounding down headed out grass does not work the best for some classes of cattle.

I think the thing that does not usually get mentioned is how afford the initial "waste." Seems like cheap leased land, or deep pockets, or delayed turn out, and/or reduced stocking is needed for a year or two...

 

[agmantoo]

I'd like some-one familiar with mob grazing to clarify the 'trampling into the dirt' comment - I know I've heard that said before, but wasting grass is no part of my system and I don't see it as being part of what agmantoo or SRbeef or anyone else practising rotational grazing and posting photos does.

I am not a mob grazer. However as an intensive rotational grazer I have done a fair amount of research on mob grazing. Mostly to see if it would be a benefit to me. Definitely it is not a one size fits all. My summary is that it may work but certain circumstances need to exist, either to own large acreage or to lease large acreage and have the flexibility to "waste" the productivity of the land if you live in an area that receives moisture. Most mob grazers never seem to put the cattle on the forage until it is past its peak. In areas where each season differs, forage will tend to mature on the same cycle. How do you optimize the forage growth? Mob grazing also seems to me to be a gimmick by some that sell their expertise at paid to attend seminars. I have seen pics where a herd was being MOB fed a thick stand of cockleburr attempting to make a point and at the same time not recognizing that the plant is toxic to cattle. Where is the expertise? My conclusion is that MOB grazing could work for feeding thin stock where you want to add some weight for a season and then resell them having incurred no expense of any consequence for the gain other than land rent. I see no means to maximize the forage producing capability of limited acreage or to extend the grazing duration significantly. I would like to know the gain per acre/year from mob grazing only. From rotational grazing I am sustaining year round ~ 100 cows and marketing their calves at ~550 lbs off 141 acres. In my mind this would not be achievable by Mob grazing. Mob grazing may fill a niche in some areas but IMO not here.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Yes, maximizing forage pounds/acre and maximizing gain/acre are way different. Even mob manics admit that it works best with dry cows. I have thought about trucking dry cows to mob remote hay meadows, but our fall can be very short and I would need to provide windbreaks and liquid water and ...

I have seen photos of folks doing it with stockers on stocker forage but even with that quality forage they still get moved every couple hours. I assume they are able to provide continuous stocker quality forage by setting up a grazing wedge in spring - - perhaps making some balage or silage.

So there is scale factor here to justify the additional labor, and perhaps some additional machine harvest or watering capacity.
Maybe I just need to buy more cattle, or else I can tether the family cow in a road ditch and name her Mob? :shock: