EPDs - Just Out

[rocfarm]

Most people Google info then come here for real world experience or how to apply that info in the real world. @rocfarm came here to teach all of use what he learned on Google.

I do like to read.

 

[rocfarm]

So how do you figure cost per head being too high? Normally it's only time and the utilization of the forage being much better makes it worth while. Unless your getting paid for something that this time is taking away from this payment, it's like this" what's time to a hog".

If I make 50/hour in my day job and it takes me 1 hour a day to set up a new paddock move 10 head of cattle twice a day, that's 5$ per head per day.

If I own 100 cattle and it takes me 1 1/2 hours to set up two new paddocks and move them twice a day, that's $.75 per head per day. Pretty simple math…

Anyone can work it out for themselves based on their situation…

 

[Travlr]

When I worked out my plan, I figured on losing a calf and a first calf heifer/cow each year. Still think I can make money.

The way I think I can get to '100%' calves is to start buying some bred cows each year that will calve in my calving window (after I start making money, that is), then maybe selling any that aren't bred when I preg check and/or also culling any that don't drop a calf on time right before winter. Then I could always be raising about 10 calves to sell around July.

Also thought about buying some $400 extra low-maintenance type corriente cows for 'insurance' this coming July. Would have about 13 head of cows, with some nice beef cattle, but also enough head to ensure 10 calves to raise. Would turn the bull in around December. Would preg check in July. If all 13 were bred, I'd let them calve in October, then sell any that didn't have a live calf or were late. If I had more than 10 calves on the ground, I would sell the cows with dinks and keep the 10 best looking.

But for now, I'm tapped out.

Sounds like a plan...

I'm not sure about corriente. I've never "tried" to have poor cattle so I'm skeptical of the outcome. To me the inputs involved are not that different to having animals that produce excellence and bring top dollar. But... as said... I've never done it.

 

[Travlr]

If I make 50/hour in my day job and it takes me 1 hour a day to set up a new paddock move 10 head of cattle twice a day, that's 5$ per head per day.

If I own 100 cattle and it takes me 1 1/2 hours to set up two new paddocks and move them twice a day, that's $.75 per head per day. Pretty simple math…

Anyone can work it out for themselves based on their situation…

I like the way you do math... but why are you "setting up paddocks" and moving twice a day? My pastures were all set up once and done... and all I had to do was open a gate, call them, and close the gate behind them. In fact they would often be waiting at the gate after a couple of weeks which told me they were ready for new grass.

 

[wbvs58]

Can't speak to you experience. But the research I've done says bulls on average last to about 7 years old. And my current herd is less than ten head. Again, money doesn't pan out from an exposure to profit perspectiv.

Assuming that you are set now for a bit you have plenty of time to look around and sus out your next bull, a good bargain may crop up within your budget but on the other hand if what you have now is easy to get on with and stays put it is a good argument to not rock the boat with a replacement until you have to.

Ken

 

[rocfarm]

Now, don't go rogue on him. He is just starting out. Wants beef cattle and spending what he can.
WE know taking short cuts, trying "new" ideas, cutting expenses, generally ends up costing more money than spending money.
The reason people are harping on your statement about moving cattle is because whether you have 5 cows or 500, if you give them just a big enough pasture to graze, that will last them 1 to 5 days, you will get a whole lot more nutrition in your cattle, and the pastures will grow back faster and keep providing the cattle with lush, growing plants.
It does not take but a few minutes to move your herd. They catch on quick. Open a gate and call them.
Leave the cattle on the same ground, and they will quickly eat the good stuff.....over and over, killing off the best, until all they have is junk to eat.
You should NEVER let them graze the same spot more than 7 days because they will start eating the regrowth.
When you put them on a small area, they eat EVERYTHING, but no regrowth.
The paddock needs to rest for at least 30 days around here. This may drastically be different in different areas.

Sorry Jeanne. Even though I am firmly in the rotational grazing camp, I couldn't resist posting this in response. There have been A LOT of peer-reviews studies that have shown continuous grazing is a viable option for many areas. This is just one.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

When I worked out my plan, I figured on losing a calf and a first calf heifer/cow each year. Still think I can make money.

The way I think I can get to '100%' calves is to start buying some bred cows each year that will calve in my calving window (after I start making money, that is), then maybe selling any that aren't bred when I preg check and/or also culling any that don't drop a calf on time right before winter. Then I could always be raising about 10 calves to sell around July.

Also thought about buying some $400 extra low-maintenance type corriente cows for 'insurance' this coming July. Would have about 13 head of cows, with some nice beef cattle, but also enough head to ensure 10 calves to raise. Would turn the bull in around December. Would preg check in July. If all 13 were bred, I'd let them calve in October, then sell any that didn't have a live calf or were late. If I had more than 10 calves on the ground, I would sell the cows with dinks and keep the 10 best looking.

But for now, I'm tapped out.

I hear about these $400. low maintenance type Corriente cows but so far real world data confirming such has been slow coming.
Not sure that dog will hunt,

 

[rocfarm]

I like the way you do math... but why are you "setting up paddocks" and moving twice a day? My pastures were all set up once and done... and all I had to do was open a gate, call them, and close the gate behind them. In fact they would often be waiting at the gate after a couple of weeks which told me they were ready for new grass.

how many paddocks did you have?

 

[rocfarm]

I hear about these $400. low maintenance type Corriente cows but so far real world data confirming such has been slow coming.
Not sure that dog will hunt,

Got one out there now. If she drops a calf and it brings 500, I'll pay for her and her feed in one year. We'll see.

 

[rocfarm]

WE know taking short cuts, trying "new" ideas, cutting expenses, generally ends up costing more money than spending money.
.

Agree. But sometimes you also get paid..

 

[kenny thomas]

If I make 50/hour in my day job and it takes me 1 hour a day to set up a new paddock move 10 head of cattle twice a day, that's 5$ per head per day.

If I own 100 cattle and it takes me 1 1/2 hours to set up two new paddocks and move them twice a day, that's $.75 per head per day. Pretty simple math…

Anyone can work it out for themselves based on their situation…

Are you taking off work to move the cows? If so you are correct. If you would not otherwise be getting paid for that time its back to "what's time to a hog".

 

[rocfarm]

Sounds like a plan...

I'm not sure about corriente. I've never "tried" to have poor cattle so I'm skeptical of the outcome. To me the inputs involved are not that different to having animals that produce excellence and bring top dollar. But... as said... I've never done it.

But my corriente heifer weighs 500 as oppsed to the 900 the braford weighs, so she eats less. And she got a bad start to life and looks slick and healthy, now. Low-maintenance cow that eats little. But there are two camps on this.

 

[Travlr]

how many paddocks did you have?

On my first place I could put a cow/calf unit on about an acre and a half, and had three pastures. The other place was six+ acres per unit and I had five pastures. Of course pasture sizes varied, grass cover and type varied, and rotation varied depending also on seasonal changes.

On each place I also used one space to cut enough hay to carry my stock over the winter, so timing mattered.

 

[rocfarm]

Are you taking off work to move the cows? If so you are correct. If you would not otherwise be getting paid for that time its back to "what's time to a hog".

Don't really know how to answer that one, except from the beginning I have tried to calculate what I think any farm work actually cost me in terms of opportunity cost. I know some amount of hobby is involved, but when I purchased the place about 5 years ago I also thought that I should be making money. Rested the place for about 2 and 1/2 years because of previous drought and grazing stress.

I later tried to lease it but was a bit dissatisfied, then decided to try my hand.

So far everything I've purchased, including the land, tractor, and other equipment are worth as much or more than I paid for them.

And when I fix my road or the tank or mow with my tractor, I work out how much I spent on that project, including my labor. I want to know what things really cost.

Just kinda feel the cattle side should work the same way as well.

 

[Travlr]

But my corriente heifer weighs 500 as oppsed to the 900 the braford weighs, so she eats less. And she got a bad start to life and looks slick and healthy, now. Low-maintenance cow that eats little. But there are two camps on this.

My neighbor had a cow that looked like hell. She was a skinny runt with a big head and Holstein coloring... and she raised a solid colored muscular calf that was as big as she was every year. Most poor cows I've seen raise poor calves. She was the exception to the rule.
It isn't about economical cows, IMO, as much as it's about what you are producing and what you get for your efforts. I understand there are trade-offs but I would always take a fourteen hundred pound cow that raised a great looking 600# calf over a thousand pound cow that raised a crappy looking 450# calf.
The point being that if I'm making $50 an hour I'll be putting the same efforts in both cows for very different outcomes. Why wouldn't I choose to make more for my efforts?

 

[rocfarm]

On my first place I could put a cow/calf unit on about an acre and a half, and had three pastures. The other place was six+ acres per unit and I had five pastures. Of course pasture sizes varied, grass cover and type varied, and rotation varied depending also on seasonal changes.

On each place I also used one space to cut enough hay to carry my stock over the winter, so timing mattered.

Well, I've got between 100 and 200 acres. That'd be a lot more paddocks. Central Texas doesn't have y'all's grass, either. I figure 1 cow to 10 acres is safe for my place…

 

[rocfarm]

Assuming that you are set now for a bit you have plenty of time to look around and sus out your next bull, a good bargain may crop up within your budget but on the other hand if what you have now is easy to get on with and stays put it is a good argument to not rock the boat with a replacement until you have to.

Ken

Yeah. I do want to do that. Here's my current bull. 18 months old. Plan on selling him in 18 months, after I get two calf crops off of him. But if I keep his heifers, will need to utilize a heifer bull for a few seasons to get his daughters to more mature size before putting a terminal type bull on them.

Then again, if he throws good calves off of average cows, I might have to keep him and just sell all his progeny and buy a few more average cows… We'll see.

 

[kenny thomas]

Don't really know how to answer that one, except from the beginning I have tried to calculate what I think any farm work actually cost me in terms of opportunity cost. I know some amount of hobby is involved, but when I purchased the place about 5 years ago I also thought that I should be making money. Rested the place for about 2 and 1/2 years because of previous drought and grazing stress.

I later tried to lease it but was a bit dissatisfied, then decided to try my hand.

So far everything I've purchased, including the land, tractor, and other equipment are worth as much or more than I paid for them.

And when I fix my road or the tank or mow with my tractor, I work out how much I spent on that project, including my labor. I want to know what things really cost.

Just kinda feel the cattle side should work the same way as well.

Good point. All my career if I could have worked just a few hours overtime it would have been much easier and more profitable.

 

[rocfarm]

My neighbor had a cow that looked like hell. She was a skinny runt with a big head and Holstein coloring... and she raised a solid colored muscular calf that was as big as she was every year. Most poor cows I've seen raise poor calves. She was the exception to the rule.
It isn't about economical cows, IMO, as much as it's about what you are producing and what you get for your efforts. I understand there are trade-offs but I would always take a fourteen hundred pound cow that raised a great looking 600# calf over a thousand pound cow that raised a crappy looking 450# calf.
The point being that if I'm making $50 an hour I'll be putting the same efforts in both cows for very different outcomes. Why wouldn't I choose to make more for my efforts?

We all have our constraints. And I've heard back and forth on the cheap vs expensive cows.

but none of the cattlemen around me seem to have 1400lb cows. They seem to stick to the 1100 to 1200Lbs range. I'd like about 1100 average when they're in good condition, myself.

 

[rocfarm]

Good point. All my career if I could have worked just a few hours overtime it would have been much easier and more profitable.

And that overtime money, if invested in a smart way that builds wealth using the principle of compound interest over the long term, can really pay off! It has worked for me. Hope to find the right model for the cows to pay in the same way.