I recently got a vet flyer from a supply company saying to give a shot of epinephrine to a cow when pulling a calf. Was wondering if anybody had done this seems like it would have to be pretty fast acting cause I don't think I would want to wait.
Epinephrine pulling calves.
- Thread starter bmoore87
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branguscowgirl
Well-known member
Epinephrine is fast acting. But what was their purpose for giving it?
It dilates blood vessels and bronchioles, increasing heart rate ect. I would think that might be dangerous in a cow that is already under stress. But IDK. Would be interested to read the science behind it.
It dilates blood vessels and bronchioles, increasing heart rate ect. I would think that might be dangerous in a cow that is already under stress. But IDK. Would be interested to read the science behind it.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
It's news to me...but a quick google search led me to the article below, with that recommendation by Dr. Mark Hilton.
http://beefmagazine.com/calving/calving ... ve-calving
Still don't know that I'd be giving epi, but an old dog can learn new tricks.
http://beefmagazine.com/calving/calving ... ve-calving
Still don't know that I'd be giving epi, but an old dog can learn new tricks.
sim.-ang.king
Well-known member
Might work if your cow went into cardiac arrest.
Lucky- there was a good AABP-L discussion on it recently re prolapses. Are you on the list serv?
It can decrease uterine tone and give you more room to manipulate a malpresentation... but I'd be using an epidural also. I almost used epi last night, had a set of breech twins, did a tail block, wanted to try epi to give me room to bring the hooves up, but actually had them up by the time the bottle of epi was located. Of course... the cow was pretty rank and she probably had enough epinephrine in her system already. :lol:
You can kill a cow with it too, especially one down and in shock already. Use with caution.
It can decrease uterine tone and give you more room to manipulate a malpresentation... but I'd be using an epidural also. I almost used epi last night, had a set of breech twins, did a tail block, wanted to try epi to give me room to bring the hooves up, but actually had them up by the time the bottle of epi was located. Of course... the cow was pretty rank and she probably had enough epinephrine in her system already. :lol:
You can kill a cow with it too, especially one down and in shock already. Use with caution.
Lucky_P
Well-known member
Thanks, milkmaid. I see you're having a good (busy) time of it!
No, I'm the AASRP person at our shop; we do have an AABP member, but she doesn't keep us apprised of every discussion topic. We try to spread out over the special interest groups and keep others abreast - though usually about emerging disease situations and diagnostics.
Wonder if it would work that way on pigs? Dr. M(my wife) and I were asked by a neighbor, a couple of weeks back, to assist a sow in dystocia; uterine inertia. She was really clamped down on a pig that I couldn't reach, but Dr. M's arms are longer and thinner than mine, she was finally able(after 2 hrs and pumping lots of lube in) to get him moved far enough that I could get a grip on him and extract him
No, I'm the AASRP person at our shop; we do have an AABP member, but she doesn't keep us apprised of every discussion topic. We try to spread out over the special interest groups and keep others abreast - though usually about emerging disease situations and diagnostics.
Wonder if it would work that way on pigs? Dr. M(my wife) and I were asked by a neighbor, a couple of weeks back, to assist a sow in dystocia; uterine inertia. She was really clamped down on a pig that I couldn't reach, but Dr. M's arms are longer and thinner than mine, she was finally able(after 2 hrs and pumping lots of lube in) to get him moved far enough that I could get a grip on him and extract him
Good thing to learn i'll have to get a bottle in case i have a tough one i cant get in the right position.
Could you use it on a calf in place of banamine if you have one you pulled thats sluggish since it dialates blood vessels and bronchioles and increases heart rate?
Could you use it on a calf in place of banamine if you have one you pulled thats sluggish since it dialates blood vessels and bronchioles and increases heart rate?
Lucky_P
Well-known member
No.
Two very different compounds with very different actions.
Not sure why you'd give banamine to a 'sluggish' newborn calf. I can't think of a good reason. Get 'em dried off, warmed up, and fed with a good dose of colostrum.
Not picking on you bmoore, but you've hit one of my hot buttons.
I'm not sure why so many folks think they can - or need to - give banamine for anything/everything. It's a non-steroidal inflammatory drug, has limited, if any, pain-relieving effects - other than diminishing inflammatory mediators, and is pretty short acting (9hr) in the bovine.
And folks, it's NOT innocuous...I see too many people treating it like it's candy or just an injection of saline solution; it's not. Approved route of administration for cattle is IV...how many of you are giving it that way? If you're giving it SQ or IM, it does cause tissue damage - and pain/discomfort; and be aware that IM injection has a slaughter withdrawal of not less than 30 days, compared to the 4 day withdrawal for the appropriate single IV dose.
Two very different compounds with very different actions.
Not sure why you'd give banamine to a 'sluggish' newborn calf. I can't think of a good reason. Get 'em dried off, warmed up, and fed with a good dose of colostrum.
Not picking on you bmoore, but you've hit one of my hot buttons.
I'm not sure why so many folks think they can - or need to - give banamine for anything/everything. It's a non-steroidal inflammatory drug, has limited, if any, pain-relieving effects - other than diminishing inflammatory mediators, and is pretty short acting (9hr) in the bovine.
And folks, it's NOT innocuous...I see too many people treating it like it's candy or just an injection of saline solution; it's not. Approved route of administration for cattle is IV...how many of you are giving it that way? If you're giving it SQ or IM, it does cause tissue damage - and pain/discomfort; and be aware that IM injection has a slaughter withdrawal of not less than 30 days, compared to the 4 day withdrawal for the appropriate single IV dose.
littletom
Well-known member
Just asked the vet she said it relaxes the uterus for pulling.
There's a compound called Dopram you might be thinking of bmoore... it's a respiratory stimulant.
Can't see epi, banamine, or dex doing anything useful for a full term calf at birth. Dex for a premie, sure.
Can't see epi, banamine, or dex doing anything useful for a full term calf at birth. Dex for a premie, sure.
branguscowgirl
Well-known member
I keep Epi on hand for an anaphylactic reaction only. I thought that everyone giving meds to animals kept some for emergencies.
I guess that brings up another question. Does anyone else carry it with them when the vaccinate?
I have seen pictures of some really nasty tissue damage from giving Banamine IM to horses. I don't use it any longer IM. They make a paste for horses. I only give it for a colic or tying up.
I guess that brings up another question. Does anyone else carry it with them when the vaccinate?
I have seen pictures of some really nasty tissue damage from giving Banamine IM to horses. I don't use it any longer IM. They make a paste for horses. I only give it for a colic or tying up.
Nope good to learn though, i read the dex thing in some cattlemens articles onlines like the one i searched below and they mention dopram and epinephrine also. The banamine i have heard from other farmers. I will have to change to dopram.
http://www.canadiancattlemen.ca/2011/01 ... -dystocia/
Brangus I do not but I should. We have been lucky and only ever had 1 calf (knock on wood) that had a minor reaction when vaccinating probably shouldnt tempt fate any longer.
http://www.canadiancattlemen.ca/2011/01 ... -dystocia/
Brangus I do not but I should. We have been lucky and only ever had 1 calf (knock on wood) that had a minor reaction when vaccinating probably shouldnt tempt fate any longer.
branguscowgirl
Well-known member
Bmoore, I also write common dosages right on a label that I adhere to the bottle for a quick glance. Rubber band a needle and syringe to it, so I can get to it fast. I only had to use it once in 20 years, but glad I had it. (Cow gasping for air and collapsed.)
I have a bottle. I've had to use it twice for vaccine reactions. I don't know off hand the incidence of anaphylaxis, but I haven't been at a feedyard that stocks epi yet, so it can't be very high.
I don't use banamine on anything IM - I've also seen clostridial myonecrosis caused by improper administration (IM vs IV).
I don't use banamine on anything IM - I've also seen clostridial myonecrosis caused by improper administration (IM vs IV).
kworth1980
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Funny one of our vets was out and was telling us about this and doing this to help with pulling. Also he said if you have a hard pull and that calf is sluggish they give mom and calf a shot of metacam and he was saying there is studies that are showing that it improves weight gain in calves - now I haven't looked into it but quite interesting.
