That costs money in time, fuel and shrink.
Feeding calves for weaning/ holding
- Thread starter Brute 23
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MurraysMutts
Well-known member
@Brute 23 I'll sure be glad when sale day gets here.
Super interested in how it turns out. I fed about 10 of em one time. Didn't work out so good for me. That was before I kept actual numbers. I'm like u, I'd love to have a scale so could SEE results as we go!
Don't worry. Prices are gonna be there as long as we don't get 100 days of 100 degrees again!
Super interested in how it turns out. I fed about 10 of em one time. Didn't work out so good for me. That was before I kept actual numbers. I'm like u, I'd love to have a scale so could SEE results as we go!
Don't worry. Prices are gonna be there as long as we don't get 100 days of 100 degrees again!
OP
OP
Well... the profits are going down the tubes now. My helper decided he likes hand feeding them the good stuff. 
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Especially when they just walk over it!! LOL He looks like he is having fun - that's what matters.
OP
OP
On the last batch we did go like 16 days which is right around #10/h/d. That batch did have the #150 of salt per ton. Im not sure if the salt did it or the green up. The calves are definitely out grazing more so I would lean more towards the green up.
OP
OP
We still have the calves. They have settled in around #10phpd with the #150 salt and green pasture. They have definitely put some pounds on.
I turned them to a new little pasture with pretty good grass around the 1st of the month. I think we will see s slight drop in feed rates again because they are spending a lot more time out in the pasture.
Hopefully prices hold.
Opening up the new pasture first of the month.
I turned them to a new little pasture with pretty good grass around the 1st of the month. I think we will see s slight drop in feed rates again because they are spending a lot more time out in the pasture.
Hopefully prices hold.
Opening up the new pasture first of the month.
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Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Calves look good. The group of cattle left behind are probably pizzed!!!
OP
OP
They have to follow me through the pens, out the bottom, then hang a left, to then walk through that alley bowe. The ones in the video understood the plan. The others went left too early and just balled up in the pens.
It took a few minutes but they finally filed out and came through with the others.
MurraysMutts
Well-known member
They look like the KIND!
Biguns are bringing well over 2000/HD round here. They look like they can still get bigger.
OP
OP
We are down to the wire. Bulk feed ran out last week so I asked my son to hand feed them with me until we sell. They got down to #8 at the end so it lasted a little longer and it wasn't worth the haul to us to get us to sale day. We just bought it in sacks for this last week or so. They are getting around #8 being hand fed, also. It has worked out because they are being fed in the pens and it shouldn't take much effort to pen and load them.
Prices have eased back up so it will be interesting to see what happens.
As of right now, I show we have around $245 in each one. I just just lack hauling and some labor to load but I'll reconcile it all when it's done to be sure.
Prices have eased back up so it will be interesting to see what happens.
As of right now, I show we have around $245 in each one. I just just lack hauling and some labor to load but I'll reconcile it all when it's done to be sure.
MurraysMutts
Well-known member
So u started with 3 weights right?
Fed since January?
What ya think they weigh now?
What was target weight again? 450lbs?
I've got mine eating spring flush grass. Just a little feed to get em trained to come in. I'll be holding longer than you for sure.
OP
OP
I think the avg was around 400. They ranged probably plus or minus 50 from that.
Started Feb 1
Target was 550-600. That's a sweet spot to sell for us.
I think some will weight up around 625ish and low side 525. There are a one or two that may bust out of that range on each end. Hard to pin those down. (Now I'm on the hook
)Like people have said on here before I think they definitely came on the last 30 days. Not sure if that was getting settled in, age, or green up or what.
If it was raining and we had grass growing like crazy I would be tempted to hold them another 30 days on mainly grass and let the bottom end catch up. It's turning pretty dry and hot so I'm going to get out while the getting is good (hopefully).
OP
OP
The sale barn I used has changed hands recently so I called the new owners Monday to ask about the best way to market these. The guy seemed excited to sell them and said he would put the word out. He had me send him all the vacs and othe info on them along with a pic. He claims he will announce they are weaned and so on before they sell.
We talked a little about selling like this and he said he plans to start doing some weaned calf sales like some of yall talk about. He thinks he can bring in some more buyers for those sales. I hope that goes through because that would be right up our alley.
I plan on being there to see how it goes.
We talked a little about selling like this and he said he plans to start doing some weaned calf sales like some of yall talk about. He thinks he can bring in some more buyers for those sales. I hope that goes through because that would be right up our alley.
I plan on being there to see how it goes.
@Brute 23 We weaned first week in December this year. Calves avg weight I'd guess at 475#. We fed 8# a day until March 15th then tapered off to a few days a week. Our feed cost was $310 a ton so around $1.25 a day per hd. So I'd guess $125-130 per hd in feed and another $6 in shots at weaning. We sold on April 15th this year, the Steers avg. 656# @ $2.76 and Hfrs 609# @ 609. I was happy with this. Definitely not the best group of calves we've weaned but they turned out for us. Had a group of 9 steers that weighed 618 and brought $2.99 out of this bunch.
It's hard to say for sure but looking at the prices in December compared to when we sold I'd guess we made $8-9,000 by keeping this group of 55 calves. I wish I had it in me to keep records like you do.
It's hard to say for sure but looking at the prices in December compared to when we sold I'd guess we made $8-9,000 by keeping this group of 55 calves. I wish I had it in me to keep records like you do.
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OP
OP
Well numbers are in. Avg was $1550 on the group. We had a couple light heifers bring it down a little but had a couple big steers go $1800 to make up for it.
When I get a chance to compile everything thing I'll do a better breakdown and recap of the deal as a whole.
When I get a chance to compile everything thing I'll do a better breakdown and recap of the deal as a whole.
MurraysMutts
Well-known member
Sounds like ya had a couple steers go 600lbs or so.
OP
OP
Finally sitting down after all the bills are paid and looking through every thing.
Feb 2, 2024 through May 2, 2024 (roughly 90 days)
Basis was estimated @ $1050 per head (what they would have brough straight off the cow Feb 2)
Target sale price was $1500 per head
Steers avg was #584 @ 2.87 $1680
Heifers avg was #601 @ 2.34 $1434
Total avg of $1557 ea
The avg don't really say a whole lot because there was more weight difference than I expected. As an example, scanning through some big steers went 680, 645, 670... They were bringing $2.70, 2.77, etc. They were definitely the upper end bringing plus or minus $1800. Small end there were steers that went 475, 530, etc. They brough $3 and up which was still in the $1600 range.
On heifers, same thing. Heifers on the bigger end were 665, 635, one went 725 lol. Those bigger ones were bringing in the $2.30 range for right around $1500. The lighter end had some in the low #500s and only brought $2.5, 2.6, etc and end up $1400-1500.
On expenses
Total $245.49 per head
Feed included things like the creep feed, a bag of cubes as seen in the video, a couple round bales, loose salt, loose mineral, and a molasses tub that was in the trap we turned out in to so we billed it.
Medical was Triangle 10, multi min, de-wormer, fly spray/ powder, etc. It really was not that expensive to make sure they had the right stuff on this.
Labor was 48hrs @ $12. That was for weaning, setting up the feeders, working them for shots, hauling out, and some misc. It didn't account for every minute checking on them or phone calls and things like that but I definitely wanted to show some thing. If I wanted to really be a stickler and double the labor its easy to see what that would add to a calf.
In Summary (I'm sure I will think of some more later)
It worked. Good cattle prices helped a lot. Having the spreadsheet and numbers let you play with price fall, death, labor, etc to see how it would have effected the overall numbers. As a whole, we would have had to have major death loss or a pretty good price drop to go in the red.
The self feeder was a win. Even at potentially higher consumption it was cheaper that feeding daily, overall. We also saved on labor with the AB hauling for free due to the amount of calves. Doing what we did really didn't require tractors, big trailers, or any equipment overhead. I would consider a squeeze chute and good pens, traps, pastures almost a necessity though.
Adding in the green pasture the last 30-45 days was a winner. They definitely came on strong with the combination of time and pasture. In different circumstance, mainly rain dependent, I would have cut the heavy end off and kept the light end on pasture and a different feed regiment for another 30-60 days. It was discussed but its just turning too dry here.
Things that went right.
Feeder and keeping labor down.
We were very fortunate that this group weaned easy, took right to feed, and could be handled fairly easily. I attest a lot of that to the genetics of the animals and the set up/ environment they were handled it.
Things I would do different.
I would try a different feed. That feed is probably good for right when they come off the cows and you have them kind of penned up. Once they started getting turned out and took to feeding they should have been on a better feed like accuration. I do want to try a group on wcs as we had very good luck with my sons heifers on pasture and free choice wcs. They did not consume near as much, daily, when it was kept out free choice. I don't think there is a big money savings to be had but I think we could have gotten a little better results or even got to a target weight a little faster.
Feb 2, 2024 through May 2, 2024 (roughly 90 days)
Basis was estimated @ $1050 per head (what they would have brough straight off the cow Feb 2)
Target sale price was $1500 per head
Steers avg was #584 @ 2.87 $1680
Heifers avg was #601 @ 2.34 $1434
Total avg of $1557 ea
The avg don't really say a whole lot because there was more weight difference than I expected. As an example, scanning through some big steers went 680, 645, 670... They were bringing $2.70, 2.77, etc. They were definitely the upper end bringing plus or minus $1800. Small end there were steers that went 475, 530, etc. They brough $3 and up which was still in the $1600 range.
On heifers, same thing. Heifers on the bigger end were 665, 635, one went 725 lol. Those bigger ones were bringing in the $2.30 range for right around $1500. The lighter end had some in the low #500s and only brought $2.5, 2.6, etc and end up $1400-1500.
On expenses
Total $245.49 per head
| Feed | $209.58 |
| Med | $9.91 |
| Labor | $26.00 |
Feed included things like the creep feed, a bag of cubes as seen in the video, a couple round bales, loose salt, loose mineral, and a molasses tub that was in the trap we turned out in to so we billed it.
Medical was Triangle 10, multi min, de-wormer, fly spray/ powder, etc. It really was not that expensive to make sure they had the right stuff on this.
Labor was 48hrs @ $12. That was for weaning, setting up the feeders, working them for shots, hauling out, and some misc. It didn't account for every minute checking on them or phone calls and things like that but I definitely wanted to show some thing. If I wanted to really be a stickler and double the labor its easy to see what that would add to a calf.
In Summary (I'm sure I will think of some more later)
It worked. Good cattle prices helped a lot. Having the spreadsheet and numbers let you play with price fall, death, labor, etc to see how it would have effected the overall numbers. As a whole, we would have had to have major death loss or a pretty good price drop to go in the red.
The self feeder was a win. Even at potentially higher consumption it was cheaper that feeding daily, overall. We also saved on labor with the AB hauling for free due to the amount of calves. Doing what we did really didn't require tractors, big trailers, or any equipment overhead. I would consider a squeeze chute and good pens, traps, pastures almost a necessity though.
Adding in the green pasture the last 30-45 days was a winner. They definitely came on strong with the combination of time and pasture. In different circumstance, mainly rain dependent, I would have cut the heavy end off and kept the light end on pasture and a different feed regiment for another 30-60 days. It was discussed but its just turning too dry here.
Things that went right.
Feeder and keeping labor down.
We were very fortunate that this group weaned easy, took right to feed, and could be handled fairly easily. I attest a lot of that to the genetics of the animals and the set up/ environment they were handled it.
Things I would do different.
I would try a different feed. That feed is probably good for right when they come off the cows and you have them kind of penned up. Once they started getting turned out and took to feeding they should have been on a better feed like accuration. I do want to try a group on wcs as we had very good luck with my sons heifers on pasture and free choice wcs. They did not consume near as much, daily, when it was kept out free choice. I don't think there is a big money savings to be had but I think we could have gotten a little better results or even got to a target weight a little faster.
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OP
OP
One thing that really needs to be highlighted here is genetics. I see it in the pasture at weaning time and in my spreadsheets but this REALLY highlighted in. Not all cows are created equal. In the pasture it is easy to make excuses, some legitimate and some not, for why that calf is not like the others. In this scenario, they were are in a controlled setting. There were cows that I had in my mind that did not produce and this feed test proved that.
As an example, a friend of mine had some calves in the feed group (their numbers are not in the posted number above). He bought 4 black Brangus type cows a couple years ago and 3 had calves in this group. When we put them up against other cows with calves born with in 15 days of theirs, there was a #50-100 difference at sale. Looking back at the sale numbers and using the light end of $2.5 for heifers and $3.1 on steers, those cows could have easily cost him $200 per calf, + or - $50. Times that by 3 calves.... $600. Times that by 10 calve.... $6000 lost. I know we all have a new piece of equipment in our head or a fence or a squeeze chute or a bill that $6K could go to.
I know people want to say, you just have commercial cows, numbers don't matter. Now take that $200 loss and times it by 30, 50, 100 momma cows.
Applying those numbers, how much is a cow at a sale worth that you have no background on. There comes a time when you can justify keeping your own cows, in a commercial herd, if you are keeping the books on their performance, and investing in it with things like bull power, and culling hard based on it. I don't care the breed or how great the advertising is for that commercial female sale is, if the cows don't put the numbers on the calves you are peeing in the wind.
To highlight the difference, he had a second calf black and white heifer from us that was in his top gaining calves. She was just a crossed up commercial heifer but her mom and grandmother and other relatives are in our pastures right now because they perform. Buy performance (or raise it)... not breeds.
As an example, a friend of mine had some calves in the feed group (their numbers are not in the posted number above). He bought 4 black Brangus type cows a couple years ago and 3 had calves in this group. When we put them up against other cows with calves born with in 15 days of theirs, there was a #50-100 difference at sale. Looking back at the sale numbers and using the light end of $2.5 for heifers and $3.1 on steers, those cows could have easily cost him $200 per calf, + or - $50. Times that by 3 calves.... $600. Times that by 10 calve.... $6000 lost. I know we all have a new piece of equipment in our head or a fence or a squeeze chute or a bill that $6K could go to.
I know people want to say, you just have commercial cows, numbers don't matter. Now take that $200 loss and times it by 30, 50, 100 momma cows.
Applying those numbers, how much is a cow at a sale worth that you have no background on. There comes a time when you can justify keeping your own cows, in a commercial herd, if you are keeping the books on their performance, and investing in it with things like bull power, and culling hard based on it. I don't care the breed or how great the advertising is for that commercial female sale is, if the cows don't put the numbers on the calves you are peeing in the wind.To highlight the difference, he had a second calf black and white heifer from us that was in his top gaining calves. She was just a crossed up commercial heifer but her mom and grandmother and other relatives are in our pastures right now because they perform. Buy performance (or raise it)... not breeds.
bird dog
Well-known member
So you are not sure of your average daily gain?
Growth genetics can come in all shapes and forms. I weaned, backgrounded and sold 14 calves in mid April and the top performer was from a sale barn cow of unknown breeding but appears to be a red angus jersey cross. Bred to my Limousin bull her calf weaned just above average but gained just shy of 4 lbs per day on spring pasture and a twice a week feeding of 14% pellets.
Growth genetics can come in all shapes and forms. I weaned, backgrounded and sold 14 calves in mid April and the top performer was from a sale barn cow of unknown breeding but appears to be a red angus jersey cross. Bred to my Limousin bull her calf weaned just above average but gained just shy of 4 lbs per day on spring pasture and a twice a week feeding of 14% pellets.
OP
OP
I have not finished that up yet. I did a few outliers because they stuck out but have not done the group as a whole. I'm saving that for the heat of the day.
They definitely can and I figured this was going to come up.
Getting real world data on performance in your pasture from cows you are considering buying is very hard. Even pure blood epds have their weakness and there are not a lot of avenues that have data on their cows.
In my mind, #1, it's about knowing the risk and paying accordingly. Out of all your AB purchases, how many were top performers and how many were sub par? That's the true story. Also, is she a one and done, maybe 2? If that's the case, your purchase and sale price carry a larger load than the calf prices. Some one using cows for 10+ calves will have a lot larger weight on their calf prices.
I can invest more in a replacement because I know my odds of getting a top performer. Cows from people I trust and know their operation have a higher value. Cows I can buy with calves at there side or that I can see have a higher value.
Ultimately though, it's all a risk until you get them in you pasture and see the performance first hand. That brings in the 2nd part, you have to keep the records and cull hard. Two of the most important things to a producer, fertility and pounds on a calf, are easy to reproduce. The easiest money made in the cattle business is done keeping books, imo.
No matter where you source your cattle from, if you pay accordingly, and cull hard based on performance, you can build a team of all stars, that will then make you more, all stars.
To highlight this again, it's about numbers and behavior (culling)... not breeds.
