Travlr
Well-known member
Just curious... why are black buzzards and badgers on your list?
I had a prairie dog town and always considered the badgers my allies.
Got wolves?
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I had a prairie dog town and always considered the badgers my allies.
Travlr
Well-known member
That listening, learning, and thinking is more productive than making up my mind before I have as much information as I can get... and then having to be so invested in a premature conclusion that I defend it against all reason. I have some opinions... but they aren't so set in stone that I can't change my mind if I hear something I don't know or never considered.
Dave
Well-known member
We have a lot more cougars than wolves. At least at this point. I wish we had a lot less of both of them. I do know of some cougars that got shot this winter. Including the one I shot. If anyone shot a wolf they are keeping their mouth shut.
We all crab about the financial cost of predators on our little group of livestock - couple cows here, some goats there. It pales in comparison to the loss associated to herbivores like deer to agriculture that have now run amok without predation. I'll bet losses to coyotes and wolves doesn't add up to 1% of the losses associated with deer. All we do is crab about how the predators kill all the deer! 
But, that sort of argument requires us to see beyond our own patch of dirt and our own little group of critters. Which is really all that matters right? I'm on board.
But, that sort of argument requires us to see beyond our own patch of dirt and our own little group of critters. Which is really all that matters right? I'm on board.farmerjan
Well-known member
I have no experience with badgers, just ground hogs that dig holes in the hayfield that you don't see, and then you drop an axle in it and break something... but I have enough experience with black buzzards that I will shoot every single one that I can if it is anywhere near my cattle. They have gone into sheds and eaten baby calves alive... from the butt end, tearing them apart when they are recovering from scours... they have surrounded a heifer calving and without intervention, they would have eaten that calf before it even had a chance to stand up. They have attacked lambs; the ewe has one and then after maybe a few minutes, gets up and moves a few feet away and goes on to have the twin and they are there pecking out the eyes of the first one born... the black ones do not just eat carrion, they will attack and eat and kill perfectly healthy animals, in the form of brand newborns, because they operate in "packs".....
I know of NO ONE that has any use for the black buzzards. And they attack and drive out the true naked neck (turkey) buzzard here that eats dead stuff on the roads and does not bother the livestock.
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Travlr
Well-known member
Well you said badgers, so I asked. The badgers kill ground hogs too, which is nothing to me one way or the other. It is the way it is. But prairie dogs? I never killed any of my badgers because they ate the prairie dogs.
We have black buzzards around here but I've never heard of them killing anything. I'll have to ask around. Maybe it's just that I've never heard because the subject never came up.
farmerjan
Well-known member
There are ranchers and hunters on different websites that talk about the black buzzards and their killing of livestock. Try googling... you will find all sorts of info. They are as bad as, or worse than, just about any predator there is.
Travlr
Well-known member
Well now I've learned some things. For one, I'm not really sure if the birds here are turkey vultures or black vultures, but I suspect turkey vultures. So maybe that's why I haven't heard about predation. In any case thanks for the comment that sparked my interest.
Gobbler'sKnob
Well-known member
Won't get any arguments out of me, nothing wrong at all with weighing everything before making a decision.
Gobbler'sKnob
Well-known member
I had to sit multiple downed animals to their end fending off those damned black buzzards. They don't care if it's dead or not. Bad business. Kill em.
Dave
Well-known member
I have a neighbor who lost 10 calves to the wolves last year. Their steers sold for over $1,000 a head. That make that a pretty good dent in the pocket book. I don't see 10 cents of lose from deer. It is a big world out there. What is a problem for me isn't a problem for you and the other way around.We all crab about the financial cost of predators on our little group of livestock - couple cows here, some goats there. It pales in comparison to the loss associated to herbivores like deer to agriculture that have now run amok without predation. I'll bet losses to coyotes and wolves doesn't add up to 1% of the losses associated with deer. All we do is crab about how the predators kill all the deer!
Ebenezer
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Hunting leases add value to farmland income and deal with the deer and such.
chaded
Well-known member
If they have a red head they are turkey vultures. I believe what everyone is talking about are black headed vultures but are saying black vultures which makes it a little confusing.
Stocker Steve
Well-known member
Deer damage is usually focused on vehicle collisions. The insurance companies keep great records on this. Crop and tree damage is not tracked well, but we have areas here where you cannot grow corn or beans or trees. Hay is your only real option. In part because deer hunters have bought up pasture land and then expect the farming neighbors to feed "their deer". Deer hunters don't deal with deer numbers here because they are often using live decoys to attract a trophy.
We are allowed up to 5 deer (one buck and four antlerless) per person here. Party hunting is legal in some situations. I used to haul a pickup load of does in for a food shelf program each fall, but they shut down that program. In part because some complained that donated venison was not safe...
Predators damage is more localized. We have many folks who will not shoot a doe, but they are all in predators. Packs move into this area and then disappear after a couple months...
We are allowed up to 5 deer (one buck and four antlerless) per person here. Party hunting is legal in some situations. I used to haul a pickup load of does in for a food shelf program each fall, but they shut down that program. In part because some complained that donated venison was not safe...
Predators damage is more localized. We have many folks who will not shoot a doe, but they are all in predators. Packs move into this area and then disappear after a couple months...
Dave
Well-known member
Once again it is a big old world and things are different. Hunting leases are extremely rare in this part of the world. Why pay a lease in a county with over a million acres of public land. Here you are allowed one buck and season is only about 10-12 days long. It is a draw for a tag and you get preference points for every year you don't draw a tag. It takes about 3 years worth of points to get a tag in this game unit. The game dept says that they aren't reaching their population goals for mule deer. But at the same time they say that there is 7,000 cougars in the state. At 100 deer per year per cougar they are killing more deer than the hunters are. I know of 8 or 9 deer killed in the area. I am sure there were others I don't know about. I also know of 8 cougars killed in the area. When we start killing as many cougars as we do deer, we may have too many cougars.
puzzled in oregon
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The game dept says that they aren't reaching their population goals for mule deer.
Is there goal to build the mule deer population or exterminate it ? Must be to exterminate the mule deer, that's why they brought the wolves in...
Dave
Well-known member
They didn't bring in the wolves. It happened in Idaho 25 years ago. They swam across the Snake River to get to Oregon. That put them in the Wallowa Mountains. The spread into the Blues and on from there. It seems that people first try to work with the authorities when wolves move in. After an attempt to work with them people just get tight lipped and find their own solutions. I had a game dept guy tell me they had a collared wolf swim back and forth across the Snake 3 times. The last time he got shot on the Idaho side.
It is not som much the open country mule deer that the wolves get. The timber country elk are really getting hit hard. I know a man who took 23 years to draw an elk tag in a "premiere" trophy elk area. He hunted for a week and the only elk sign he saw was elk hair in wolf turds. He did let the game dept know what he thought about this.
It is not som much the open country mule deer that the wolves get. The timber country elk are really getting hit hard. I know a man who took 23 years to draw an elk tag in a "premiere" trophy elk area. He hunted for a week and the only elk sign he saw was elk hair in wolf turds. He did let the game dept know what he thought about this.
puzzled in oregon
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Thanks for correcting my misinformation. In areas, like the coastal region, what sort of fence would it take to protect livestock from wolves ?
Silver
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Wolves were sent from my back yard to central Idaho and Yellowstone back in about 1996.
Gobbler'sKnob
Well-known member
One that costs more than a 30-30 cartridge, a shovel, and a reticent disposition when talking to authorities.
Not even being a smart***, but flatly fencing out predators is not a realistic option if your property is bigger than a hobby farm or homestead, and they'll find a way into anything short of a high fence with time.
