Son of Butch
Well-known member
Here it's the other way around.....non-vaccinated weaned on the truck calves bring 10 to 15 cents LESS. :lol:Dave":15bvw8vu said:
haul or wean
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denvermartinfarms
Well-known member
Brute 23":1hc0ycxv said:
Sorry, but that is far from reality.
hillbilly beef man
Well-known member
Here a weaned calf brings an extra nickel. I wean and vaccinate any heifer that is going to be sold off the farm. Anything else is not. It is not worth the trouble for a nickel, if it was 10 cents or more I would think about it.
denvermartinfarms
Well-known member
Here shots will get you 5 to 8 cents, weaned and shots a strong 15 cents.hillbilly beef man":3czr7hjc said:
hillbilly beef man
Well-known member
denvermartinfarms":28ryd0eu said:
I would do it for this, but not 5 cents.
slick4591
Well-known member
The two barns I deal with don't ask about shots and don't write it down if you do tell them. I've seen a few guys stand up when their calves entered the ring and tell the crowd. Seems to be the only way to let the buyers know.
bird dog
Well-known member
If you are going to do the things the correct way at least try to find a better way to market your calves than the sale barns weekly sale. If thats your only choice, then it probably is not worth the effort but if you run them in the chute to get your value added stuff done like implant, worm and castrate, might as well give them shots.
We have had this discussion multiple times on this forum.
You steer a calf and it brings .15 more... I leave mine intact so it brings .15 less... but weighs more. You are being paid because there is more usable meat on your steer... but less over all weight. Are you really profiting more money?
What is your actual cost of weaning, cutting, vac, ect?
I don't actually own any cattle as I have said before. My family has cattle and I take care of some cattle for a guy. Every hour of labor and expense is accounted for because some one will be paid for it. The accountant prints out every dime in and every dime out. We can't do that... "I don't factor in my labor" stuff.
When you add up that you are going to cut calves it gets expensive. All the sudden you are having to upgrade the facilities. Calf tables, squeeze chutes, ect.... all expensive... especially if you have multiple properties. Now I have to hire in help to vac and cut. Before it was just me, maybe my dad or a friend to work the gate on the trailer. Now your also working cattle more often... once to cut, once to wean, once to haul. Maybe more if you don't have a calving season... maybe less if you combine cutting and weaning. Now you need to have a calving season to be more efficient. Now you need bull pastures, more bulls, and all the time associated with pulling them, putting them back out, keeping them happy when they aren't with the cows. Oh wait you have a calving season... bigger trailer or your hiring out... on and on and on.
That is all very expensive. :shock:
Right now I drive by and mark #29 2/15 B (#29 cow had a bull calf, Feb, 2015). That can usually be combined with feeding or some other work. That cow and calf will not be touched until its time to be hauled to sale. Mix in any work that needs to be done to the cows when you pen them to cut calves off for sale. That's it. Nothing else.
Some people may make a few extra dollars at sale but my input costs are significantly less. $0.15 / # does not pay for all the additions expenses associated with meeting those standards.
There is a sweet spot where your dollars in provide max return out. You can spend .10 per animal doing some thing to do it like the buyer wants but they only give you .05 for it. You lost .05 "doing it right".
Early on I pulled in groups of calves and did test groups. Sold some immediately, cut some, fed out some, ect. I put it all on spreadsheets and I could never make cutting the calves pay out. I could make weaning and feeding calves or putting them on grass pay... but never cutting them.
Maybe that's an area deal and it may not work for every one. It is some thing to consider. I know a lot of people who do a lot of things "because its what you do" or "its the right way". I just challenge people to actually get out the paper and pencil and be sure it is actually returning you what you think it is.
I also challenge you to see how much of that "right way" stuff is necessary. There are lots of cattle out here that get penned once a year to cut their calf off and then its back to the brush. They are healthy as can be, produce a calve every year with no breaks, and have 4 or 5 generations of their offspring with them all producing day in and day out. The most money you will every make is hauling in a big Tiger Stipe X Char calf that you really hadn't gotten a good look at until you got it in the pens. It would probably make you mad if you saw what it brings vs the one you hovered over the past 6mo. :lol:
At the end of the day, if you haul in a quality animal, in good condition, you will get good money... vac no vac... balls no balls. Its about keeping you cost per lb of beef as low as possible. There is a big difference in what people spend and not that big of a difference in what they get payed. 90% of the animals going in are junk and are getting docked for it. They would be far better off worrying about quality than to cut or not to cut. :tiphat:
You steer a calf and it brings .15 more... I leave mine intact so it brings .15 less... but weighs more. You are being paid because there is more usable meat on your steer... but less over all weight. Are you really profiting more money?
What is your actual cost of weaning, cutting, vac, ect?
I don't actually own any cattle as I have said before. My family has cattle and I take care of some cattle for a guy. Every hour of labor and expense is accounted for because some one will be paid for it. The accountant prints out every dime in and every dime out. We can't do that... "I don't factor in my labor" stuff.
When you add up that you are going to cut calves it gets expensive. All the sudden you are having to upgrade the facilities. Calf tables, squeeze chutes, ect.... all expensive... especially if you have multiple properties. Now I have to hire in help to vac and cut. Before it was just me, maybe my dad or a friend to work the gate on the trailer. Now your also working cattle more often... once to cut, once to wean, once to haul. Maybe more if you don't have a calving season... maybe less if you combine cutting and weaning. Now you need to have a calving season to be more efficient. Now you need bull pastures, more bulls, and all the time associated with pulling them, putting them back out, keeping them happy when they aren't with the cows. Oh wait you have a calving season... bigger trailer or your hiring out... on and on and on.
That is all very expensive. :shock:
Right now I drive by and mark #29 2/15 B (#29 cow had a bull calf, Feb, 2015). That can usually be combined with feeding or some other work. That cow and calf will not be touched until its time to be hauled to sale. Mix in any work that needs to be done to the cows when you pen them to cut calves off for sale. That's it. Nothing else.
Some people may make a few extra dollars at sale but my input costs are significantly less. $0.15 / # does not pay for all the additions expenses associated with meeting those standards.
There is a sweet spot where your dollars in provide max return out. You can spend .10 per animal doing some thing to do it like the buyer wants but they only give you .05 for it. You lost .05 "doing it right".
Early on I pulled in groups of calves and did test groups. Sold some immediately, cut some, fed out some, ect. I put it all on spreadsheets and I could never make cutting the calves pay out. I could make weaning and feeding calves or putting them on grass pay... but never cutting them.
Maybe that's an area deal and it may not work for every one. It is some thing to consider. I know a lot of people who do a lot of things "because its what you do" or "its the right way". I just challenge people to actually get out the paper and pencil and be sure it is actually returning you what you think it is.
I also challenge you to see how much of that "right way" stuff is necessary. There are lots of cattle out here that get penned once a year to cut their calf off and then its back to the brush. They are healthy as can be, produce a calve every year with no breaks, and have 4 or 5 generations of their offspring with them all producing day in and day out. The most money you will every make is hauling in a big Tiger Stipe X Char calf that you really hadn't gotten a good look at until you got it in the pens. It would probably make you mad if you saw what it brings vs the one you hovered over the past 6mo. :lol:
At the end of the day, if you haul in a quality animal, in good condition, you will get good money... vac no vac... balls no balls. Its about keeping you cost per lb of beef as low as possible. There is a big difference in what people spend and not that big of a difference in what they get payed. 90% of the animals going in are junk and are getting docked for it. They would be far better off worrying about quality than to cut or not to cut. :tiphat:
Rafter S
Well-known member
Brute,
You made some good points, and if that's working for you I'm fine with it. Just a couple of things to think about. I have a defined calving season. When the youngest calf is a few weeks old they all get blackleg vaccine, and the bulls get cut. I don't have a squeeze chute or table, they're castrated from behind while standing in the loading chute. Again, if you don't work your calves until they're sold I don't care, but losing one to blackleg would pay for a lot of vaccine. And I've seen it happen. Just like people that buy a bull and turn him out, and then never get him tested. That's fine until two or three years later when 20 or so cows come up open. I've seen that happen too.
You made some good points, and if that's working for you I'm fine with it. Just a couple of things to think about. I have a defined calving season. When the youngest calf is a few weeks old they all get blackleg vaccine, and the bulls get cut. I don't have a squeeze chute or table, they're castrated from behind while standing in the loading chute. Again, if you don't work your calves until they're sold I don't care, but losing one to blackleg would pay for a lot of vaccine. And I've seen it happen. Just like people that buy a bull and turn him out, and then never get him tested. That's fine until two or three years later when 20 or so cows come up open. I've seen that happen too.
fenceman
Well-known member
I started it. Thought I should show. The outcome. I only took five. Off the five worst conditioned cows. Three were first calf heifers. Milk on their breath, uncut. They had vaccinations. Not that anyone cared
skyhightree1
Well-known member
Nice check now go buy some breds soon as prices drop... ;-)
Dave
Well-known member
Brute 23":3pcipmfp said:We have had this discussion multiple times on this forum.
You steer a calf and it brings .15 more... I leave mine intact so it brings .15 less... but weighs more. You are being paid because there is more usable meat on your steer... but less over all weight. Are you really profiting more money?
What is your actual cost of weaning, cutting, vac, ect?
I don't actually own any cattle as I have said before. My family has cattle and I take care of some cattle for a guy. Every hour of labor and expense is accounted for because some one will be paid for it. The accountant prints out every dime in and every dime out. We can't do that... "I don't factor in my labor" stuff.
When you add up that you are going to cut calves it gets expensive. All the sudden you are having to upgrade the facilities. Calf tables, squeeze chutes, ect.... all expensive... especially if you have multiple properties. Now I have to hire in help to vac and cut. Before it was just me, maybe my dad or a friend to work the gate on the trailer. Now your also working cattle more often... once to cut, once to wean, once to haul. Maybe more if you don't have a calving season... maybe less if you combine cutting and weaning. Now you need to have a calving season to be more efficient. Now you need bull pastures, more bulls, and all the time associated with pulling them, putting them back out, keeping them happy when they aren't with the cows. Oh wait you have a calving season... bigger trailer or your hiring out... on and on and on.
That is all very expensive. :shock:
Right now I drive by and mark #29 2/15 B (#29 cow had a bull calf, Feb, 2015). That can usually be combined with feeding or some other work. That cow and calf will not be touched until its time to be hauled to sale. Mix in any work that needs to be done to the cows when you pen them to cut calves off for sale. That's it. Nothing else.
Some people may make a few extra dollars at sale but my input costs are significantly less. $0.15 / # does not pay for all the additions expenses associated with meeting those standards.
There is a sweet spot where your dollars in provide max return out. You can spend .10 per animal doing some thing to do it like the buyer wants but they only give you .05 for it. You lost .05 "doing it right".
Early on I pulled in groups of calves and did test groups. Sold some immediately, cut some, fed out some, ect. I put it all on spreadsheets and I could never make cutting the calves pay out. I could make weaning and feeding calves or putting them on grass pay... but never cutting them.
Maybe that's an area deal and it may not work for every one. It is some thing to consider. I know a lot of people who do a lot of things "because its what you do" or "its the right way". I just challenge people to actually get out the paper and pencil and be sure it is actually returning you what you think it is.
I also challenge you to see how much of that "right way" stuff is necessary. There are lots of cattle out here that get penned once a year to cut their calf off and then its back to the brush. They are healthy as can be, produce a calve every year with no breaks, and have 4 or 5 generations of their offspring with them all producing day in and day out. The most money you will every make is hauling in a big Tiger Stipe X Char calf that you really hadn't gotten a good look at until you got it in the pens. It would probably make you mad if you saw what it brings vs the one you hovered over the past 6mo. :lol:
At the end of the day, if you haul in a quality animal, in good condition, you will get good money... vac no vac... balls no balls. Its about keeping you cost per lb of beef as low as possible. There is a big difference in what people spend and not that big of a difference in what they get payed. 90% of the animals going in are junk and are getting docked for it. They would be far better off worrying about quality than to cut or not to cut. :tiphat:
I am glad it works for you. When I was talking 15 cents that was unweaned non-vaccinated steer versus a weaned vaccinated steer. Here if you bring in an unweaned non-vaccinated bull and the difference will be 60 cents or more. There are big regional differences in this country. Try to bring cattle in once a year, peel off the calves and kick them back out doesn't work here. Try it and there won't be much left to look at next year. I am happy that style of management works for you but it simply doesn't work in the vast majority of the country.
Do you have a livestock report that shows the $0.60 difference?
That is a big difference. You are saying if we take identical #500 calves in but yours is cut, vac, ect and mine isn't.. I will get $1000 and you will get $1300?
Im looking at a report and #500 are around $2 in this area.
steer calves: Under 200 lbs none
200-250 lbs one 275.00
250-300 lbs. none
300-350 lbs. 231.00-275.00
350-400 lbs. two 238.00&252.50
400-450 lbs. 211.00-246.00
450-500 lbs. 199.00-224.00
500-550 lbs. 190.00-208.00
550-600 lbs. 178.00-200.00
600-700 lbs 178.00-195.00
700-800 lbs 167.00-179.00
bull calves: Under 250lbs 236.00-300.00
250-300 lbs. 228.00-295.00
300-350 lbs. 195.00-220.00
350-400 lbs. 198.00-272.00
400-450 lbs. 224.00-258.00
450-500 lbs. 182.00-222.00
500-550 lbs. 185.00-212.00
550-600 lbs. 171.00-191.00
600-700 lbs 166.00-178.00
Over 700 lbs. 163.00-169.00
That is a big difference. You are saying if we take identical #500 calves in but yours is cut, vac, ect and mine isn't.. I will get $1000 and you will get $1300?
Im looking at a report and #500 are around $2 in this area.
steer calves: Under 200 lbs none
200-250 lbs one 275.00
250-300 lbs. none
300-350 lbs. 231.00-275.00
350-400 lbs. two 238.00&252.50
400-450 lbs. 211.00-246.00
450-500 lbs. 199.00-224.00
500-550 lbs. 190.00-208.00
550-600 lbs. 178.00-200.00
600-700 lbs 178.00-195.00
700-800 lbs 167.00-179.00
bull calves: Under 250lbs 236.00-300.00
250-300 lbs. 228.00-295.00
300-350 lbs. 195.00-220.00
350-400 lbs. 198.00-272.00
400-450 lbs. 224.00-258.00
450-500 lbs. 182.00-222.00
500-550 lbs. 185.00-212.00
550-600 lbs. 171.00-191.00
600-700 lbs 166.00-178.00
Over 700 lbs. 163.00-169.00
Angus Cowman
Well-known member
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- Oct 12, 2008
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I agree with BF and CP
If you have the genetics your calves will make you money by weaning and feeding them
If your set up to where you could set up a gate to where you could feed the calves and stilleave them on the cows for a week or so till they are eating grain it will stress them less and you shouldn't have any shrink
To each their own
As for creep feeding The only way I could ever make it work was as a conditioning tool to get them to eating for a few weeks before weaning
If you have the genetics your calves will make you money by weaning and feeding them
If your set up to where you could set up a gate to where you could feed the calves and stilleave them on the cows for a week or so till they are eating grain it will stress them less and you shouldn't have any shrink
To each their own
As for creep feeding The only way I could ever make it work was as a conditioning tool to get them to eating for a few weeks before weaning
Dave
Well-known member
Brute,
This is the market report from Toppenish. You will note that they have bulls bunched into a larger weight group. That is probably because there just aren't that many of them. Lumping steers to match 400 to 600 pound steers were from $2.50 to $1.70. Bulls 400 to 600 were from $1.90 to $1.50. That is 60 cents difference at the top and 20 cents at the bottom. The report for bigger feeder sales like the one last week that ran just under 3,000 head don't even list bulls because there are so few of them. But those sales are for large groups of farm fresh well managed cattle. They won't even accept trader cattle for those sales. And they sell them in large groups of single owner calves. It takes about 3 hours to sell 3,000 head.
Thursday 9/10/2015 Cattle 1668
Beef Cattle Report
Choice Steers Choice Heifers
300-400 175.00-260.00 300-400 175.00-240.00
400-500 175.00-250.00 400-500 175.00-220.00
500-600 170.00-222.00 500-600 165.00-210.00
600-700 170.00-219.00 600-700 165.00-205.00
700-800 165.00-210.00 700-800 155.00-190.00
800-900 150.00-195.00 800-900 150.00-180.00
900-1000 140.00-180.00 900-1000 130.00-165.00
Holstein Steers Feeder Bulls
300-400 160-205.00 400-600 150-190.00
400-600 150-180.00 600-800 140-175.00
600-800 140-160.00 800-1000 120-145.00
800-1000 125-145.00 1000-1200 90-115.00
Butcher Cows Butcher Bulls
Top Cows 85-95.00 High Yld Bulls 125-140
C & C's 75-90.00 Low Yld Bulls 95-120
Shells 35-65.00
Stock Cows
#1 Pairs 1800-2200 #1 Bred Cows 1600-1900
#2 Pairs 1300-1600 #2 Bred Cows 1250-1500
This is the market report from Toppenish. You will note that they have bulls bunched into a larger weight group. That is probably because there just aren't that many of them. Lumping steers to match 400 to 600 pound steers were from $2.50 to $1.70. Bulls 400 to 600 were from $1.90 to $1.50. That is 60 cents difference at the top and 20 cents at the bottom. The report for bigger feeder sales like the one last week that ran just under 3,000 head don't even list bulls because there are so few of them. But those sales are for large groups of farm fresh well managed cattle. They won't even accept trader cattle for those sales. And they sell them in large groups of single owner calves. It takes about 3 hours to sell 3,000 head.
Thursday 9/10/2015 Cattle 1668
Beef Cattle Report
Choice Steers Choice Heifers
300-400 175.00-260.00 300-400 175.00-240.00
400-500 175.00-250.00 400-500 175.00-220.00
500-600 170.00-222.00 500-600 165.00-210.00
600-700 170.00-219.00 600-700 165.00-205.00
700-800 165.00-210.00 700-800 155.00-190.00
800-900 150.00-195.00 800-900 150.00-180.00
900-1000 140.00-180.00 900-1000 130.00-165.00
Holstein Steers Feeder Bulls
300-400 160-205.00 400-600 150-190.00
400-600 150-180.00 600-800 140-175.00
600-800 140-160.00 800-1000 120-145.00
800-1000 125-145.00 1000-1200 90-115.00
Butcher Cows Butcher Bulls
Top Cows 85-95.00 High Yld Bulls 125-140
C & C's 75-90.00 Low Yld Bulls 95-120
Shells 35-65.00
Stock Cows
#1 Pairs 1800-2200 #1 Bred Cows 1600-1900
#2 Pairs 1300-1600 #2 Bred Cows 1250-1500
Thanks. That is very interesting. You can definatly see a larger gap than in our area.
The sale barn with the prices I posted sells between 2000-3000 head per week. It was like 1400 last week with the prices I posted.
I'm going to ask them if they know the break down of bulls vs steers in numbers.
You can see from our report there is not a lot of difference.
The sale barn with the prices I posted sells between 2000-3000 head per week. It was like 1400 last week with the prices I posted.
I'm going to ask them if they know the break down of bulls vs steers in numbers.
You can see from our report there is not a lot of difference.
