How to breed out black coat color

[TexasJerseyMilker]

Here's the back story. My favorite Jersey cow Daphne is 13, she would be 14 if she calved again. She has always lived on the ranch and had 7 calves by Black Angus bulls. All were black or nearly black. While I was gone to Oregon in 2016 a fire burned onto the ranch and she and the rest of the herd were evacuated to the auction yard across the river. He big steer calf was sold. She had open teats and was left in a dirty auction yard pen with big beef cows beating her up. When I got back a week later she had mastitis in all 4 quarters and was septic. She had 5 kinds of pathogens in her udder. I saved her but she lost her hind teats but she could still raise calves. One of the pathogens is Staph aureus. It never really goes away just dormant until they come fresh and it flares again. Last time she calved I noticed one of those front teats was just producing a serum. She's done milking and I'm keeping her for a pet.

All her life I have wished to get a Jersey heifer from her but there were only angus bulls. She's too old to breed. Embryo transfer- There are no vets around that can do it and I'm not sure she has many eggs anyway like an old hen. The last calf of her life is a first calf heifer bred from a black bull now lives on the ranch across the road. She is black, actually a black brindle. You can see the very faint undertones. She has a black calf at side.



Her sire was a homebred black bull that probably has some Charolaise in the wood pile. A previous calf by him out of Daphne was fawn colored so I guess he's not homozygous.


He lived into his 20s still siring calves but they finally culled him.

So this is what I have to work with. If AI sex selected Jersey semen was used on this black daughter I will probably get a red brindle, right? If I breed the brindle back to Jersey how many generations will it take to suppress the black gene and get a heifer calf that looks something like Daphne?

 

[Ky hills]

If the bull was heterozygous black then the cow bred back to a Jersey could produce a Jersey looking calf.
We had a situation a few years ago where the neighbor's Jersey bull got in with our heifers and bred one. The heifer was a commercial solid black but was only heterozygous black the resulting calf looks very Jersey in color and phenotype.

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

That would be great.

It's funny, I actually sold this black heifer to the 2 year old son of the rancher across the road. He is building his own cattle herd. He loves this cow. Now she has a bull calf at side so his herd has doubled in size. I guess I could offer to buy her back or 'lease' her. He could build up his bank account and buy more cows.

She is likely bred back. So I would have to wait until her calf is weaned and the next one is born. Then take them both back across the road so the beef bull could not breed her again.

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

Kyhills Do you have a picture of this half Jersey heifer?

 

[Warren Allison]

Here's the back story. My favorite Jersey cow Daphne is 13, she would be 14 if she calved again. She has always lived on the ranch and had 7 calves by Black Angus bulls. All were black or nearly black. While I was gone to Oregon in 2016 a fire burned onto the ranch and she and the rest of the herd were evacuated to the auction yard across the river. He big steer calf was sold. She had open teats and was left in a dirty auction yard pen with big beef cows beating her up. When I got back a week later she had mastitis in all 4 quarters and was septic. She had 5 kinds of pathogens in her udder. I saved her but she lost her hind teats but she could still raise calves. One of the pathogens is Staph aureus. It never really goes away just dormant until they come fresh and it flares again. View attachment 43739Last time she calved I noticed one of those front teats was just producing a serum. She's done milking and I'm keeping her for a pet.

All her life I have wished to get a Jersey heifer from her but there were only angus bulls. She's too old to breed. Embryo transfer- There are no vets around that can do it and I'm not sure she has many eggs anyway like an old hen. The last calf of her life is a first calf heifer bred from a black bull now lives on the ranch across the road. She is black, actually a black brindle. You can see the very faint undertones. She has a black calf at side.

View attachment 43740

Her sire was a homebred black bull that probably has some Charolaise in the wood pile. A previous calf by him out of Daphne was fawn colored so I guess he's not homozygous.

View attachment 43746
He lived into his 20s still siring calves but they finally culled him.

So this is what I have to work with. If AI sex selected Jersey semen was used on this black daughter I will probably get a red brindle, right? If I breed the brindle back to Jersey how many generations will it take to suppress the black gene and get a heifer calf that looks something like Daphne?

There would be a 50/50 chance it would be black, and a 50/50 chance it would be Jersey colored.

 

[Dsth]

I agree with @Warren Allison about the split. even though the heifer is black, she has 50% of Daphne in her gene pool and 50% of the black bull. since the black is the more dominate color, she is black. she will only pass one gene onto her calf thus the 50/50 split. also 50/50 chance of getting a heifer so now a 25% chance of getting a jersey looking heifer calf. Good luck and hope Daphne brings you years of enjoyment as a pet. She deserves it

 

[Ky hills]

Kyhills Do you have a picture of this half Jersey heifer?

Here is the 1/2 Jersey cow with her 3/4 beef calf by a heterozygous black white face bull.

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

But - That same cross of Jersey x heterozygous black bull produced this calf a year later after the black heifer.

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

That half Jersey heifer sure has a lot of milk and lot of meat on her.

How many generations bred back to Jersey would get rid of the black?

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

I use sex selected semen. 90% chance of heifer.

 

[MurraysMutts]

I kept back Bessies black heifer. Sired by a black bull (Ricky)
Unfortunately I sold her. She was bred hereford. Should've calved by now. Wish I knew.....

 

[coachg]

Why not ai her to a jersey bull , sexed semen ,female , Then bottle raise or get you a nurse cow . Sounds like you would love to keep her genetics .

 

[Warren Allison]

That half Jersey heifer sure has a lot of milk and lot of meat on her.

How many generations bred back to Jersey would get rid of the black?

That calf has a 50/50 chance of being black. If it comes out Jersey colored, then it will always throw the same color when bred to a Jersey. If it comes out black, when bred to a Jersey, then it will also have a 50/50 chance of throwing a black calf.

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

"Why not ai her to a jersey bull , sexed semen ,female , Then bottle raise or get you a nurse cow . Sounds like you would love to keep her genetics ."

That is exactly what I am trying to do

So. . . . the reason KYhills got a (beefy) Jersey out of the Jersey bull x heterozygous black cow is the 50/50 chance. And the reason I got a Jersey looking calf out of Daphne x heterozygous black bull was also the 50/50 chance. Then Daphne had a black calf out of the same cross was also the 50/50 chance for black, right?

So, I will try to get Daphne's daughter back from across the road and keep breeding her every year to sex selected Jersey AI until I get a Jersey colored heifer. Then I'll stop.

However, if I use this one in my breeding program she still will have some black calves, right? Isn't it possible to breed the black out completely? Oh wait. I just realized Warren said if the calf is born Jersey colored she will only throw Jersey colored calves.. But is she is born black she will be a 50/50 cow.

Let me explain my breeding program. Family milk cows are selling for astronomic prices. I'm machine milking and plan on raising Jersey heifer calves on bottles, raise and sell them as dehorned, vaccinated gentle halterbroke yearlings. What am I going to do with 5 to 8 gallons of milk a day per cow per day?
Therefor I do not want cows that throw black. I know pure Jerseys are sometimes black but that is not a good selling point. People want Jerseys that look like Jerseys, not one that might have Angus in the woodpile.

This is really for fun, I don't need to make a living doing this. It would be nice to break even. I just like raising calves and the grass here is incredible, might as well use it. I tell my husband I'm going to become a cattle magnate. He laughs and says You are just a cattle magnet.

 

[Warren Allison]

So, I will try to get Daphne's daughter back from across the road and keep breeding her every year to sex selected Jersey AI until I get a Jersey colored heifer. Then I'll stop.

However, if I use this one in my breeding program she still will have some black calves, right? Isn't it possible to breed the black out completely?

When a red (non-black) is bred to another red, it will always have a red calf. When a hetero black is bred to a red, there is a 50% chance the calf will be black. Black is dominate, and red is recessive. Any time a cow is red ( or possesses any other recessive trait) then it is homozygous for that trait.

 

[coachg]

"Why not ai her to a jersey bull , sexed semen ,female , Then bottle raise or get you a nurse cow . Sounds like you would love to keep her genetics ."

That is exactly what I am trying to do

So. . . . the reason KYhills got a (beefy) Jersey out of the Jersey bull x heterozygous black cow is the 50/50 chance. And the reason I got a Jersey looking calf out of Daphne x heterozygous black bull was also the 50/50 chance. Then Daphne had a black calf out of the same cross was also the 50/50 chance for black, right?

So, I will try to get Daphne's daughter back from across the road and keep breeding her every year to sex selected Jersey AI until I get a Jersey colored heifer. Then I'll stop.

However, if I use this one in my breeding program she still will have some black calves, right? Isn't it possible to breed the black out completely? Oh wait. I just realized Warren said if the calf is born Jersey colored she will only throw Jersey colored calves.. But is she is born black she will be a 50/50 cow.

Let me explain my breeding program. Family milk cows are selling for astronomic prices. I'm machine milking and plan on raising Jersey heifer calves on bottles, raise and sell them as dehorned, vaccinated gentle halterbroke yearlings. What am I going to do with 5 to 8 gallons of milk a day per cow per day?
Therefor I do not want cows that throw black. I know pure Jerseys are sometimes black but that is not a good selling point. People want Jerseys that look like Jerseys, not one that might have Angus in the woodpile.

This is really for fun, I don't need to make a living doing this. It would be nice to break even. I just like raising calves and the grass here is incredible, might as well use it. I tell my husband I'm going to become a cattle magnate. He laughs and says You are just a cattle magnet.

I'm talking the momma cow Daphne .

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

Coachg I think Daphne is too old. She moves like she's old. She only has one teat that works, although I would dry her and bottle the calf. I'm afraid when she goes down with the birth she will never get up and we'll have to shoot her. I just don't want to risk it. But I have her daughter across the road if they will sell her back, thats my only chance.

Warren wrote about Daphne's black half Angus daughter bred with Jersey semen "That calf has a 50/50 chance of being black. If it comes out Jersey colored, then it will always throw the same color when bred to a Jersey. If it comes out back, when bred to a Jersey, then it will also have a 50/50 chance of throwing a black calf."

Is this true or do I misunderstand it? Genetics are such a crap shoot anyway

 

[MurraysMutts]

Coachg I think Daphne is too old. She moves like she's old. She only has one teat that works, although I would dry her and bottle the calf. I'm afraid when she goes down with the birth she will never get up and we'll have to shoot her. I just don't want to risk it. But I have her daughter across the road if they will sell her back, thats my only chance.

Warren wrote about Daphne's black half Angus daughter bred with Jersey semen "That calf has a 50/50 chance of being black. If it comes out Jersey colored, then it will always throw the same color when bred to a Jersey. If it comes out back, when bred to a Jersey, then it will also have a 50/50 chance of throwing a black calf."

Is this true or do I misunderstand it? Genetics are such a crap shoot anyway

That about it!
Tho, sometimes it don't play fair. If the calf inherited the black gene and wasn't black itself, weird things could happen. I think that's what they call a recessive gene?? Either way, it's about your only chance.

Nothing wrong with a black jersey. I think they are the bees knees! I can't even remember the last time I saw one for sale around here.

 

[Warren Allison]

That about it!
Tho, sometimes it don't play fair. If the calf inherited the black gene and wasn't black itself, weird things could happen. I think that's what they call a recessive gene?? Either way, it's about your only chance.

Nothing wrong with a black jersey. I think they are the bees knees! I can't even remember the last time I saw one for sale around here.

Black is a dominate gene, not recessive. One coy will result in a black cow. Red is recessive. Takes two copies of the red gene to turn the cow red. A black animal can have 2 copies (homozygous) or just one (heterozygous) . A red animal will be homozygous for red.

 

[Travlr]

"Why not ai her to a jersey bull , sexed semen ,female , Then bottle raise or get you a nurse cow . Sounds like you would love to keep her genetics ."

That is exactly what I am trying to do

So. . . . the reason KYhills got a (beefy) Jersey out of the Jersey bull x heterozygous black cow is the 50/50 chance. And the reason I got a Jersey looking calf out of Daphne x heterozygous black bull was also the 50/50 chance. Then Daphne had a black calf out of the same cross was also the 50/50 chance for black, right?

So, I will try to get Daphne's daughter back from across the road and keep breeding her every year to sex selected Jersey AI until I get a Jersey colored heifer. Then I'll stop.

However, if I use this one in my breeding program she still will have some black calves, right? Isn't it possible to breed the black out completely? Oh wait. I just realized Warren said if the calf is born Jersey colored she will only throw Jersey colored calves.. But is she is born black she will be a 50/50 cow.

Let me explain my breeding program. Family milk cows are selling for astronomic prices. I'm machine milking and plan on raising Jersey heifer calves on bottles, raise and sell them as dehorned, vaccinated gentle halterbroke yearlings. What am I going to do with 5 to 8 gallons of milk a day per cow per day?
Therefor I do not want cows that throw black. I know pure Jerseys are sometimes black but that is not a good selling point. People want Jerseys that look like Jerseys, not one that might have Angus in the woodpile.

This is really for fun, I don't need to make a living doing this. It would be nice to break even. I just like raising calves and the grass here is incredible, might as well use it. I tell my husband I'm going to become a cattle magnate. He laughs and says You are just a cattle magnet.

IMO, you are making this harder than it needs to be because you want to retain a "bloodline" that really doesn't exist. You had/have a great cow that is no longer producing calves and anything from her is mixed blood... If you want Jersey heifers to sell then it's kind of a no brainer to acquire a Jersey to produce them from. Skip all the mind games and just get another Jersey. You're making it more difficult than it needs to be and with questionable results for little reason. It's not getting you anywhere by being in love with your cow and the idea of trying to breed up a line from an old cow that has timed out.