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Tanker

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Hello veterans,

I have been browsing these forums for a few days. My wife and I are currently selling our subdivision home and will purchase a country home with acreage so we can provide a different lifestyle for our 4 children. We are looking at 50-100 acres, so this will be a hobby farm to many of you. Our non-farm incomes will pay the bills on the new place including the proposed cattle purchases. We are not rich people, so choices do matter and why I turn to you folks for your generous help.

I grew up on a rice farm, so am not new to the lifestyle. The wife, not so much, but she is very excited about the adventure. It might be acceptable for the cattle to not produce any substantial income, but we cannot afford for it to become a money pit either. I would prefer that it pays for the additional acres purchased outside the home. So now you know my goal.

1) Would you agree that a 24 month old bull can service 15 cows reliably?
2) At what age do you retire a bull?
3) Assuming no other reason to cull, can we expect a cow to reproduce for 10 years before being sent to slaughter?
4) For small herds (10-15), is it best to purchase hay or invest in equipment and extra land to produce hay?
5) What is the calving ratio to be expected with a properly managed herd? 90%? 80%? 70%?
6) What is the unexpected mortality rate (dead cows) due to disease or other causes?
7) Does a herd of 10-15 justify the overall expense and cost of a bull?

Thanks in advance for offering your advice.
 
Tanker":2hfzod5g said:
Hello veterans,

I have been browsing these forums for a few days. My wife and I are currently selling our subdivision home and will purchase a country home with acreage so we can provide a different lifestyle for our 4 children. We are looking at 50-100 acres, so this will be a hobby farm to many of you. Our non-farm incomes will pay the bills on the new place including the proposed cattle purchases. We are not rich people, so choices do matter and why I turn to you folks for your generous help.

I grew up on a rice farm, so am not new to the lifestyle. The wife, not so much, but she is very excited about the adventure. It might be acceptable for the cattle to not produce any substantial income, but we cannot afford for it to become a money pit either. I would prefer that it pays for the additional acres purchased outside the home. So now you know my goal.

1) Would you agree that a 24 month old bull can service 15 cows reliably?
2) At what age do you retire a bull?
3) Assuming no other reason to cull, can we expect a cow to reproduce for 10 years before being sent to slaughter?
4) For small herds (10-15), is it best to purchase hay or invest in equipment and extra land to produce hay?
5) What is the calving ratio to be expected with a properly managed herd? 90%? 80%? 70%?
6) What is the unexpected mortality rate (dead cows) due to disease or other causes?
7) Does a herd of 10-15 justify the overall expense and cost of a bull?

Thanks in advance for offering your advice.
Click to expand...

:welcome:
I will give you my personal thoughts and thats just that.
1. Yes, A good 24 month old bull can do that.
2. Age doesn't matter to me as much as functionality and I sell mine every 3 years. " I don't like inbreeding "
3. Sure a cow could and could go longer but it depends on the cow.
4. I would purchase hay
5. 90+ %
6. I hope not to have any die but it does happen sometimes I have never did statistics on it.
7. It depends on if you have access to rent a bull from someone and are you prepared to deal with some of the issues that may come by owning a bull ... Escaping to go visit a neighbors cow.. Potential they hurt you or your family.. etc

I understand your goal and what you are saying. Anything you do can become a money pit...Especially if you do not do it correctly. We are in some really good times now with prices etc. I would not purchase lands expecting the cattle to pay for those lands. If I were purchasing extra lands it would be because I can afford it and want it and have no expectation that cattle will pay for it. :2cents:
 
I agree with everything Sky said except:

2. Get your bull tested by a vet every year. Do you plan to raise your own heifers? If you do, then I agree; get a new one every 3 years. If you aren't, and in your situation I'd suggest you don't, then if you like the calves you're getting from him you can keep using him until the vet tells you it's time to replace him. That will probably be when he's around 8 or 10 years old.
 
A 24 month old bull is fine, but I would buy one at 15 to 18 months old, he will do fine with 15 cows.

I retire bulls at 4 to 5 years old, I've kept some to 6 years, but I do t do it much anymore.

If you buy young cows to start with they should last you 10 years.

You should buy hay, it's defiantly best for that size operation.

You should have atleast a 90% calving ratio.

it's very possible you could have 15 cows for 10 years and never lose one, but things happen, very hard to say.

Yes, 15 cows is enough to own a bull.

Could you tell us where your locatet? it would help. For 15 pair in some places a good 40 acres will work, and some places you need alot more.
 
Thanks to all for the sincere replies. To answer a few of the questions posed:

We live in central Texas. Winters are mild, but grasses do go dormant from about Nov to late March, so hay is needed. Land is affordable and can be had for 3500/acre, some with improved grasses already, so it doesn't take a 'lot' for cattle to pay for the extra land. Even $500/calf at 90% calving ratio makes it work with 1 cow per 5 acres, which seems to be acceptable for the average year here. If it matters, the exact region is Temple, Texas.

We envision starting small (2-3 bred cows) and building from there to something that might be a serious hobby, but shy of a full on ranching operation. I am supposed to be a 3rd generation rice farmer, but after Jimmy Carter had his day, no one in my family is involved in agriculture anymore, and I want to change that. Ranching seems to fit this region. Thanks in advance again.
 
Oh, and there will not be an inbreeding problem, as I see us selling calves 100% and buying replacement cows for future needs. Sorry I forgot to respond to that topic.
 
Gotta know where you are or where your planning to farm. :???: but I do agree with the answers so far. :cowboy:
 
M5 had it right
You should have to take a test before you're allowed to answer questions
 
Tanker":3fdjgjo8 said:
Hello veterans,

I have been browsing these forums for a few days. My wife and I are currently selling our subdivision home and will purchase a country home with acreage so we can provide a different lifestyle for our 4 children. We are looking at 50-100 acres, so this will be a hobby farm to many of you. Our non-farm incomes will pay the bills on the new place including the proposed cattle purchases. We are not rich people, so choices do matter and why I turn to you folks for your generous help.

I grew up on a rice farm, so am not new to the lifestyle. The wife, not so much, but she is very excited about the adventure. It might be acceptable for the cattle to not produce any substantial income, but we cannot afford for it to become a money pit either. I would prefer that it pays for the additional acres purchased outside the home. So now you know my goal.

1) Would you agree that a 24 month old bull can service 15 cows reliably?
2) At what age do you retire a bull?
3) Assuming no other reason to cull, can we expect a cow to reproduce for 10 years before being sent to slaughter?
4) For small herds (10-15), is it best to purchase hay or invest in equipment and extra land to produce hay?
5) What is the calving ratio to be expected with a properly managed herd? 90%? 80%? 70%?
6) What is the unexpected mortality rate (dead cows) due to disease or other causes?
7) Does a herd of 10-15 justify the overall expense and cost of a bull?

Thanks in advance for offering your advice.
Click to expand...

First off :welcome: ! Also I agree knowing a general area of your locations makes a diffence, calving in January in north Montana is not the same as calving in Florida in January, it will help with more complete answers. To your questions, my two cents, from another hobby guy.

1. 24 month old bull will be fine on 10-15 cows.
2. Like Sky pointed out, I also like to rotate bull every three years because pretty quick he's breeding daughters
3. Yes 10 years is a fairly easy expectation on cow longevity, I have had them longer as many here have. As long as they are giving you a good calf every year and not too much of a pain for other reason I think 10 yrs is to be expected.
4. This is another where is your location question, do you have irrigation? If it was me I would buy the first year and see how much extra pasture you have. I would really look into rotation grazing, it's a pasture saver.
5. You need to expect 100%, you won't always get it but it is a reason to cull a cow.
6. Things happen, but if you have an eye on your herd you should have plenty of time to ship a sick or failing cow....... But things happen.
7. My opinion, yes, factor in resale value of the bull. But remember market fluctuations.

I'm a hobby guy have had up to 20 cows, but because of recent market values I dumped most of my herd. But one of the best parts of my hobby was AIing my herd, fast, quick herd improvement. But it also gave me a chance to work and enjoy my cattle, I have always used a clean up bull and it gave the herd (clean up) bull longer time between culling.

Not to step on toes but for 10-15 cows I would not test a bull every year, 100 head yes, but I may have him tested at purchase. I never had one tested and so far no problems .... Knocking on wood. :lol:
 
Alan,

Don't worry, my toes aren't that tender, but I'll stand by my recommendatIon. You do the math on how much money you'll lose if 15 cows come up empty, and you might change your mind.
 
Tanker":17bhh6a3 said:
Thanks to all for the sincere replies. To answer a few of the questions posed:

We live in central Texas. Winters are mild, but grasses do go dormant from about Nov to late March, so hay is needed. Land is affordable and can be had for 3500/acre, some with improved grasses already, so it doesn't take a 'lot' for cattle to pay for the extra land. Even $500/calf at 90% calving ratio makes it work with 1 cow per 5 acres, which seems to be acceptable for the average year here. If it matters, the exact region is Temple, Texas.

We envision starting small (2-3 bred cows) and building from there to something that might be a serious hobby, but shy of a full on ranching operation. I am supposed to be a 3rd generation rice farmer, but after Jimmy Carter had his day, no one in my family is involved in agriculture anymore, and I want to change that. Ranching seems to fit this region. Thanks in advance again.
Click to expand...

A comment, 3500 an acre is affordable for pasture land? So if you can do it with 5 acres per cow then thats $17,500 for enough acreage to run a cow. That is a lot of expense before the cow is bought. I dont think there is money in cows at that expense.
 
sounds also like someone created a post but no matter what is explained they already have in there mind they can do it.
 
I had hoped this would not turn into what it seems to be turning into, but I can't really control that. We are going to buy a house with small acreage and tried to make the best financial decision about how to best offset some of those costs. We could grow wheat, but that means buying lots of expensive equipment. So we chose ranching. Lower investment capital. Less risk. It seems to make sense.

To the person who thinks 17,500 land cost per head is too much expense, I will point out land is not an expense. It is an asset. Renting land is an expense. The interest on the loan to buy the land is an expense, and that math looks like this:

175,000 @ 4.25% for 30 years = 134,922.13 / 360 months * 12 = $4497.40 / year in average additional interest to pay for the land purchase.

10 calves * 500 = $5000/yr.

Since our choice is to buy a house on 50 acres and make nothing off the land OR to buy a house on 50 acres and make $5000/yr off that land, we will have to disagree whether raising cattle makes financial sense, but thanks for your opinion just the same.
 
I would imagine the land won't get cheaper either. Welcome to the board.
 
It looks like a great plan on paper. But few if any make $500.00 a calf. Don't expect the calves to pay for the land, it won't happen. You'll be lucky to break even in 5 years.
 

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