Many many questions

[TNtrout23]

So where to start is the big question. So I have many many questions to ask and don't know where to begin really.

#1. I want to have as good cow
Management as possible with the small operation that I have due to land constraints. I grew up with my grandfather feeding grain year round so since my 2 years at this by myself I have always feed a little grain daily 5 gal bucket of local feed 14% protein 10 head of cattle. Pasture is in pretty good shape just fertilized a month ago triple 19. I wormed using pour on ivermectin about the same time as well. I also have trace mineral salt out along with the coop minerals free choice. Fresh spring water year round. My biggest concern is should I be feeding more/less. Some of the momma cows 3 of them that have calf's between 2-4 weeks old look a little poor but it may just be me.

#2. I've read and searched on Wdg wet distillers grain. A ton of feed here is $380. I can get 275gal of the Wdg for $150. Money wise it looks good but what are the pros and cons?

#3. One of my first cows I bought and kept her for 1.5 years wouldn't ever breed/stick. Come to find out she was a twin. Idk if that has anything to do with it or not but anyways it was time for some freezer meat so off the the slaughter house she went. So now my mother/step-father and brother and sis in law are wanting to half one this fall. I do have a stet that's 13 months old. Came with a cow/calf pair I picked up at a sale. He's only about 650-700lbs right now. I know they need to be fed out 90+or- days. What are some tips for doing feeding him out? Grain only, grain and hay? How much would I need to start out on and slowly raise the amount of grain?

If any of this needs to plebe posted elsewhere please feel free to criticize me and I'll get it moved over. All cows and bull are brangus with 1 pure angus and 2 charlottes. Bull is an Angus with Holstein way back in he lineage. So far 3 heifer calves in a month With more to come in a month to month and half.

 

[kenny thomas]

If you have decent grass the amount you need to feed is very easily figured. Number of head x 0. Cows don't need feed on decent pasture.

 

[simme]

Probably need to take up trace mineral salt since you are feeding the coop mineral. Read the label on the coop mineral. If it has salt in it, you need to remove the trace mineral salt and only feed the mineral since it already has salt. Feeding both will result in too little mineral consumed. Read and follow the label.

If you are feeding a half gallon of feed per head daily and they look a little poor, you need to evaluate your pasture quality and stocking rate. How many acres of grass do you have for these 10 head? Fescue? People have a tendency to overstock. That can cost you money. Look at BCS (Body Condition Score) on the cows. There is information online that shows how to score them based on visual body condition. Should have a BCS of 5 or 6. Buying 50# bags of feed and feeding daily costs money. Goal should be to minimize that if you are selling calves off the cow at the sale barn. Feeding daily may be profitable for seedstock or other markets where you might get a premium for condition or weight. But try to get away from daily feeding. Feed occasionally to keep the cows gentle and easy to work and coming into the catch pen.

Calving in May and June in Tennessee is probably a little late. Probably better to calve earlier and better match calving time to green grass. Breeding in the hot summer can be an issue as well. Look at a controlled calving time with the bull turned out for 60 days so that all the calves are born in a 60 day period.

Probably need to fertilize earlier assuming you have fescue. Fertilizer needs to be there prior to the greenup. Try to feed hay only during the winter. Research stockpiling of fescue and pasture rotation for consideration. Purchasing feed year round will be expensive.

Those are just some thoughts for starters. Best advice will probably come from a local experienced cattle person who can help you with what works for your conditions and situation.

 

[CalumetFarms]

One of my first cows I bought and kept her for 1.5 years wouldn't ever breed/stick. Come to find out she was a twin. Idk if that has anything to do with it or not

Sounds like she was what's called a free martin, heifer twin with a bull.
I'm doubt you need to be feeding any grain, but my one and only experience with wet distillers grain was not good. Tried holding a group of yearlings over winter on it, they went backwards on that stuff.

 

[smartin0022]

#2. I've read and searched on Wdg wet distillers grain. A ton of feed here is $380. I can get 275gal of the Wdg for $150. Money wise it looks good but what are the pros and cons?

Seems very high priced. How far are you from Jack Daniel's distillery? Cheaper to buy bulk semi load here is like $180-200 a ton for DDG and considerably less I'd have to ask on the wet cake but probably like $75-100 a ton guessing. Remember DDG and WDG are byproduct of alcohol so the distillery has to get rid of it. But maybe I'm way off since I've been away from work long enough that diesel has doubled in cost. Wet cake (WDG) spoils this time of year with so few head of cattle I wouldn't recommend. Look into DDG with only 10 head it won't spoil in a silo and is around 22% protein so I mix with WSC or cottonseed hulls as filler etc to cut the protein down.
I finish beef for 120-150 days on 50% DDG and 50% WSC/Crack corn depending on price for 90 days then either Crack corn or WSC pure for 30-60 days. I add some mineral and always feed some hay to keep the rumen working. I start 5 lbs of grain a day and add about 3 lbs to that per week until I'm at 20 lbs per head per day on grain. They should clean everything you are feeding up if not back off until they eat it all. They will go off feed if you push them to hard or its to hot. If its try a fan on them. I like to finish my beef with clean city water not muddy pond water (personal preference).

 

[Ebenezer]

Steps to take:
1- Become a student of forages. 2-Become a better student of forages. 3- Never quit being a student of forages. 4- Then think about livestock.

 

[TNtrout23]

Probably need to take up trace mineral salt since you are feeding the coop mineral. Read the label on the coop mineral. If it has salt in it, you need to remove the trace mineral salt and only feed the mineral since it already has salt. Feeding both will result in too little mineral consumed. Read and follow the label.

Makes a lot of sense now that I've noticed not a lot of mineral and/or salt has been ate. I will remove the salt and throw it out for the deer.

If you are feeding a half gallon of feed per head daily and they look a little poor, you need to evaluate your pasture quality and stocking rate. How many acres of grass do you have for these 10 head? Fescue? People have a tendency to overstock. That can cost you money. Look at BCS (Body Condition Score) on the cows. There is information online that shows how to score them based on visual body condition. Should have a BCS of 5 or 6.

A touch over 20 acres that is clover and fescue with some weeds that I haven't got around to spraying. Working 50+ hours a week and a newborn has kept me very busy. From the bcs charts I've saw I would rate the 3 mommas at a 4.5 and the rest at 5.5 to 6.

Buying 50# bags of feed and feeding daily costs money. Goal should be to minimize that if you are selling calves off the cow at the sale barn. Feeding daily may be profitable for seedstock or other markets where you might get a premium for condition or weight. But try to get away from daily feeding. Feed occasionally to keep the cows gentle and easy to work and coming into the catch pen.

Will definitely start doing this. Only reason I've been doing it is cause that's how I've seen it done for 25 years from my grandfather.

Calving in May and June in Tennessee is probably a little late. Probably better to calve earlier and better match calving time to green grass. Breeding in the hot summer can be an issue as well. Look at a controlled calving time with the bull turned out for 60 days so that all the calves are born in a 60 day period.

Never really thought of it this way. Again just following what my grandfather has done. Then again it was just a hobby for him. Didn't care about making any money as long as he didn't lose any.

Probably need to fertilize earlier assuming you have fescue. Fertilizer needs to be there prior to the greenup. Try to feed hay only during the winter. Research stockpiling of fescue and pasture rotation for consideration. Purchasing feed year round will be expensive.

Forage is one thing I really need to read up on. Lime and fertilizer timings along with spraying for weeds and reseeding as well.

Those are just some thoughts for starters. Best advice will probably come from a local experienced cattle person who can help you with what works for your conditions and situation.

I greatly appreciate your time to write all of this out

 

[TNtrout23]

#2. I've read and searched on Wdg wet distillers grain. A ton of feed here is $380. I can get 275gal of the Wdg for $150. Money wise it looks good but what are the pros and cons?

Seems very high priced. How far are you from Jack Daniel's distillery? Cheaper to buy bulk semi load here is like $180-200 a ton for DDG and considerably less I'd have to ask on the wet cake but probably like $75-100 a ton guessing. Remember DDG and WDG are byproduct of alcohol so the distillery has to get rid of it. But maybe I'm way off since I've been away from work long enough that diesel has doubled in cost. Wet cake (WDG) spoils this time of year with so few head of cattle I wouldn't recommend. Look into DDG with only 10 head it won't spoil in a silo and is around 22% protein so I mix with WSC or cottonseed hulls as filler etc to cut the protein down.
I finish beef for 120-150 days on 50% DDG and 50% WSC/Crack corn depending on price for 90 days then either Crack corn or WSC pure for 30-60 days. I add some mineral and always feed some hay to keep the rumen working. I start 5 lbs of grain a day and add about 3 lbs to that per week until I'm at 20 lbs per head per day on grain. They should clean everything you are feeding up if not back off until they eat it all. They will go off feed if you push them to hard or its to hot. If its try a fan on them. I like to finish my beef with clean city water not muddy pond water (personal preference).

Lynchburg is right at an hour away so that's not bad at all. I was wondering about the summer heat and the wet syrup making it mold so you answered another question there for me. Im not sure what WSC is? Water soluble carbs? What is your weight gain per day on your program? No muddy pond water here. Purely fresh spring water into water troughs. I'll shoot you a PM on jack daniels

 

[TNtrout23]

Steps to take:
1- Become a student of forages. 2-Become a better student of forages. 3- Never quit being a student of forages. 4- Then think about livestock.

This is what I really really need to look into

 

[Son of Butch]

#3. One of my first cows I bought and kept her for 1.5 years wouldn't ever breed/stick. Come to find out she was a twin. Idk if that has anything to do with it or not

Did you mean a heifer?
A cow has had at least one calf and a heifer has never had a calf.

 

[smartin0022]

Lynchburg is right at an hour away so that's not bad at all. I was wondering about the summer heat and the wet syrup making it mold so you answered another question there for me. Im not sure what WSC is? Water soluble carbs? What is your weight gain per day on your program? No muddy pond water here. Purely fresh spring water into water troughs. I'll shoot you a PM on jack daniels

WSC is Whole shell corn it's about $1 per hundred pounds cheaper than Crack corn. You can use wet cake in winter just fine. I hate it though lots of mess. We have drivers that deliver down there in your area if you decide to go bulk but that's alot of feed for a small herd. Maybe get together with some neighbors and split loads... I can maybe get you some contacts and current prices. But we shut down June to September because farmers quit hauling the syrup and the river Temps to high to cool the fermenters and still. Cooling towers and chillers can't keep up. I used to work for Brown Forman they own Jack Daniel's is why I ask about that I would think being local to them would make it alot cheaper in your area. I'll try to find out who they contract their DDG to if you want might save you if you haul yourself and buy direct from the contract holders the middle men will get ya.
Also, you said 275 gallons so the IBC totes? Do you know the weight on that. I know alot of slop haulers here haul in those so that's syrup or slop. We give syrup and slop away. Wet cake is ran through a centrifuge and very concentrated spent grain with some syrup added that's the $100 a ton stuff here like you need to shovel it or use a FEL (front end loader) If you are buying syrup just guessing since you are using gallons I would think $150 is crazy high. My cows can drink 600 gallons a day of syrup on the winter if I let them. They'll be fat as ticks and feet grown out and bags busted by spring though. Stay away from syrup for cow calf operation IMO.

 

[smartin0022]

WSC is Whole shell corn it's about $1 per hundred pounds cheaper than Crack corn. You can use wet cake in winter just fine. I hate it though lots of mess. We have drivers that deliver down there in your area if you decide to go bulk but that's alot of feed for a small herd. Maybe get together with some neighbors and split loads... I can maybe get you some contacts and current prices. But we shut down June to September because farmers quit hauling the syrup and the river Temps to high to cool the fermenters and still. Cooling towers and chillers can't keep up. I used to work for Brown Forman they own Jack Daniel's is why I ask about that I would think being local to them would make it alot cheaper in your area. I'll try to find out who they contract their DDG to if you want might save you if you haul yourself and buy direct from the contract holders the middle men will get ya.
Also, you said 275 gallons so the IBC totes? Do you know the weight on that. I know alot of slop haulers here haul in those so that's syrup or slop. We give syrup and slop away. Wet cake is ran through a centrifuge and very concentrated spent grain with some syrup added that's the $100 a ton stuff here like you need to shovel it or use a FEL (front end loader) If you are buying syrup just guessing since you are using gallons I would think $150 is crazy high. My cows can drink 600 gallons a day of syrup on the winter if I let them. They'll be fat as ticks and feet grown out and bags busted by spring though. Stay away from syrup for cow calf operation IMO.

I gain about 3 lbs a day avg, last one I finished I checked at 90 days he was 977 and on kill day 120 days he went 1100 on the hoof 704 hanging hot. So 123 lbs gain in 30 days 4.1 lbs a day gain but that's not normal for me usually around 3 lbs.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

Steps to take:
1- Become a student of forages. 2-Become a better student of forages. 3- Never quit being a student of forages. 4- Then think about livestock.

Go directly to the head of the class! and may I add, Avoid letting iron and oil get between the sun and the ground,,,,,

 

[TexasRancher]

Go directly to the head of the class! and may I add, Avoid letting iron and oil get between the sun and the ground,,,,,

Avoid letting cedars get between the sun and ground too. Cattle only need a few for shade and scratch toys.

 

[Warren Allison]

If any of this needs to be posted elsewhere please feel free to criticize me and I'll get it moved over. All cows and bull are brangus with 1 pure angus and 2 charlottes. Bull is an Angus with Holstein way back in he lineage. So far 3 heifer calves in a month With more to come in a month to month and half.

So, is the bull a Brangus or an Angus with Holstein way back in he lineage?

 

[simme]

Might need some pictures of cows, bull and pasture. But there may be some risk involved.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

Avoid letting cedars get between the sun and ground too. Cattle only need a few for shade and scratch toys.

Amen!

 

[TNtrout23]

Did you mean a heifer?
A cow has had at least one calf and a heifer has never had a calf.

She was a heifer.

 

[TNtrout23]

WSC is Whole shell corn it's about $1 per hundred pounds cheaper than Crack corn. You can use wet cake in winter just fine. I hate it though lots of mess. We have drivers that deliver down there in your area if you decide to go bulk but that's alot of feed for a small herd. Maybe get together with some neighbors and split loads... I can maybe get you some contacts and current prices. But we shut down June to September because farmers quit hauling the syrup and the river Temps to high to cool the fermenters and still. Cooling towers and chillers can't keep up. I used to work for Brown Forman they own Jack Daniel's is why I ask about that I would think being local to them would make it alot cheaper in your area. I'll try to find out who they contract their DDG to if you want might save you if you haul yourself and buy direct from the contract holders the middle men will get ya.
Also, you said 275 gallons so the IBC totes? Do you know the weight on that. I know alot of slop haulers here haul in those so that's syrup or slop. We give syrup and slop away. Wet cake is ran through a centrifuge and very concentrated spent grain with some syrup added that's the $100 a ton stuff here like you need to shovel it or use a FEL (front end loader) If you are buying syrup just guessing since you are using gallons I would think $150 is crazy high. My cows can drink 600 gallons a day of syrup on the winter if I let them. They'll be fat as ticks and feet grown out and bags busted by spring though. Stay away from syrup for cow calf operation IMO.

See this is great great advise. Never ever would have thought about any of that on the syrup. The totes were said to weight right at 2600lbs. Shoot me a PM if you would like. I would definitely like to get more info on the DDG.

 

[TNtrout23]

So, is the bull a Brangus or an Angus with Holstein way back in he lineage?

Bull is angus with Holstein. He is 99% black. This is not on my pasture I let my great uncle use him for a few months last year