Mineral tubs

[farmerjan]

We use salt blocks in the mineral feeder and pour the mineral around them. It stops them from knocking it out of the feeder or them trying to "eat it" and spilling it or anything... Get a half dozen that decide they have to all get into it when you put out fresh... even when it is not empty but when you go out there, you all know how they are... OOOHHH something new, better, different... and they all have to be right there into it and fight over it and shove everyone else around and all that silliness... we have found that a 50 lb. trace mineral salt block in the mineral feeder and the loose mineral poured all around it and they have the best of both worlds and they do not seem to make near the mess...

 

[Dave]

Cow were on some old Crested Wheat grass and sorry hay. I stopped in at livestock supply for a protein tab. $165!!! For a 250 pound 20% tub. I can buy 16% protein Alfalfa hay for $160 a ton. Dropped the tub idea.

 

[Warren Allison]

Has anyone had a cow or horse have health issues because they didn't lick a salt block enough? I mean... REALLY?

I've used blocks and nothing else my whole life and every rancher in my early days did too, and I certainly never heard anyone complaining because their animals were having health issues. They all bred and dropped a calf as well or better than the cattle today.

And if I was back in the business I wouldn't be inclined to do anything different today. It's kind of funny how every generation has some kind of "essential" sold to them as a "big improvement" and it's just marketing to wring money out of a wallet.

(This is not to say that there aren't legitimate areas of the country with poor soil (selenium comes to mind) but you can get inexpensive salt blocks for that too.

Next time you get salt blocks, take a big ole wet lick off one before you put it out. Then get a dinner plate, and fill it with table salt, and take a big ole wet lick off of that. Looking back on 2020-2022, records, with 100-120 head of Corriente cows,( and no telling how many deer), the loose minerals cost us about $10 -$11 per head per year. And that's with us keeping the feeders full.

 

[Travlr]

Next time you get salt blocks, take a big ole wet lick off one before you put it out. Then get a dinner plate, and fill it with table salt, and take a big ole wet lick off of that. Looking back on 2020-2022, records, with 100-120 head of Corriente cows,( and no telling how many deer), the loose minerals cost us about $10 -$11 per head per year. And that's with us keeping the feeders full.

What's your point? Do you think "trace minerals" means free choice gives them only as much as they need? Does it mean they have to ingest more salt than is necessary? Does it mean they can't get their trace minerals by licking a salt block? Is there a point where a cow can indulge in more than they need, and yet still be okay? How much of each trace mineral do they get from both delivery systems? How much do they get naturally from their environment, and how much is really required as a supplement?

In my experience ranching is as much about efficient spending as it is about producing a product that brings as much money as possible. Nickels and dimes spent for no real reason can build up until they become dollars. I've seen as many people broken by overspending as by poor management. The mind set that spending to protect your animals from a non-existent threat is cheap insurance, is just as crazy as changing your oil every 3000 miles because the service manager that makes money from upselling every time you get your engine oil changed recommends it.

Are there places where some kind of unusual soil conditions make more supplemented trace minerals than ordinary advisable? I hear there are places in Michigan, Arizona, and New Mexico where selenium is deficient. I'd still need to be convinced that a cheap $10 mineral block wouldn't be adequate to deliver the needed amounts to cattle.

 

[Warren Allison]

What's your point? Do you think "trace minerals" means free choice gives them only as much as they need? Does it mean they have to ingest more salt than is necessary? Does it mean they can't get their trace minerals by licking a salt block? Is there a point where a cow can indulge in more than they need, and yet still be okay? How much of each trace mineral do they get from both delivery systems? How much do they get naturally from their environment, and how much is really required as a supplement?

In my experience ranching is as much about efficient spending as it is about producing a product that brings as much money as possible. Nickels and dimes spent for no real reason can build up until they become dollars. I've seen as many people broken by overspending as by poor management. The mind set that spending to protect your animals from a non-existent threat is cheap insurance, is just as crazy as changing your oil every 3000 miles because the service manager that makes money from upselling every time you get your engine oil changed recommends it.

Are there places where some kind of unusual soil conditions make more supplemented trace minerals than ordinary advisable? I hear there are places in Michigan, Arizona, and New Mexico where selenium is deficient. I'd still need to be convinced that a cheap $10 mineral block wouldn't be adequate to deliver the needed amounts to cattle.

I didn;t know those blocks were that high these days.!! Last ones I bought 30 years ago were $2 plain, $3 mineral. At $10 a block, it would have been more expensive for us to use them. Our costs on loose minerals runs about $10-$11 per head per year. I doubt one of those $10 blocks would last a cow for a year.

 

[Travlr]

I didn;t know those blocks were that high these days.!! Last ones I bought 30 years ago were $2 plain, $3 mineral. At $10 a block, it would have been more expensive for us to use them. Oor costs on loose minerals runs about $10-$11 per head per year. I doubt one of those $10 blocks would last a cow for a year.

Then try it... Run the numbers when you find out how the two compare.

 

[Silver]

A cow should consume about a bag of mineral (45 lbs) per year if she is getting her 2 oz per day as is usually recommended. I think if a person is buying $10 a bag mineral they are wasting their money because either the mineral is junk or the cow isn't consuming enough to make the slightest difference.

 

[Travlr]

A cow should consume about a bag of mineral (45 lbs) per year if she is getting her 2 oz per day as is usually recommended. I think if a person is buying $10 a bag mineral they are wasting their money because either the mineral is junk or the cow isn't consuming enough to make the slightest difference.

Doesn't it really depend on what's in the mineral and if it delivers what a cow needs?

I've seen cars that can go for a million dollars gridlocked alongside used and beat up economy cars... and they all get their drivers to work just as late. The speed limit is the same for both of them.

 

[Silver]

Doesn't it really depend on what's in the mineral and if it delivers what a cow needs?

I've seen cars that can go for a million dollars gridlocked alongside used and beat up economy cars... and they all get their drivers to work just as late. The speed limit is the same for both of them.

Ya, that's a whole 'nother thread. People seem to be quite happy buying off the shelf mineral because they get a nice warm fuzzy feeling, but have no actual idea what they are and are not short of.

 

[wbvs58]

Attractants added to the mineral I treat with suspicion. We get copra meal put into the mineral to supposedly add protein to it but this is negligible protein it just makes sure they eat it. Salt is both an attractant and a limiter. It is a fine line between the cows consuming enough for their requirements and them eating enough of it to keep the manufacturers bank account healthy. I find they tend to err on side of keeping their bank account healthy. I use a mineral that has no attractants what so ever other than the mineral. There are two main elements that cows chase when they are deficient in them and that is phosphorous and sodium. My mineral will go barely consumed for months sometimes and then all of a sudden they will go after it. I am comfortable with that. Rapid lush pasture growth they seem to be chasing the phosphorous.

Ken

 

[Travlr]

Ya, that's a whole 'nother thread. People seem to be quite happy buying off the shelf mineral because they get a nice warm fuzzy feeling, but have no actual idea what they are and are not short of.

I think the point is that as long as there are "enough" trace minerals in a product, a very tiny amount in every case I know of, that the salt will attract a cow and it will get enough from the product regardless of the deficiencies in their diet or environment. We don't need to be fully knowledgeable chemical engineers in order to buy a product that by its generic nature is perfectly adequate in many conditions.

 

[StrojanHerefords]

Minerals can only help so much if the soil the forage is grown on is depleted. We have been getting hay grown in between trees in an orchard that has been well fertilized and the cows really do well on it.

 

[gcreekrch]

I think the point is that as long as there are "enough" trace minerals in a product, a very tiny amount in every case I know of, that the salt will attract a cow and it will get enough from the product regardless of the deficiencies in their diet or environment. We don't need to be fully knowledgeable chemical engineers in order to buy a product that by its generic nature is perfectly adequate in many conditions.

Trace mineral salt blocks are just that. There is such a trace in there to cost $3 more per block than a cobalt blue and you don't get $3 worth of value for it. A loose mineral designed for your area or for your own operation is money well spent.
Our herd goes through mineral like wildfire during the winter months, won't touch it once the grass turns green regardless of what we add to it. Have concluded if they don't want it they don't need it.

 

[Travlr]

Trace mineral salt blocks are just that. There is such a trace in there to cost $3 more per block than a cobalt blue and you don't get $3 worth of value for it. A loose mineral designed for your area or for your own operation is money well spent.
Our herd goes through mineral like wildfire during the winter months, won't touch it once the grass turns green regardless of what we add to it. Have concluded if they don't want it they don't need it.

Well if a three dollar more expensive block gives 30 cows enough trace minerals to do whatever trace minerals do in any one area to keep animals productive, I'd say it's worth three bucks. It's certainly not worth thirty dollars more for hand crafted designer formulas if the cheap block does the job.

 

[gcreekrch]

Well if a three dollar more expensive block gives 30 cows enough trace minerals to do whatever trace minerals do in any one area to keep animals productive, I'd say it's worth three bucks. It's certainly not worth thirty dollars more for hand crafted designer formulas if the cheap block does the job.

That's the crux, the cheap block didn't do the job here.

 

[Travlr]

That's the crux, the cheap block didn't do the job here.

Well I guess it happens... What kind of problems were you having and what was missing?

 

[Warren Allison]

Trace mineral salt blocks are just that. There is such a trace in there to cost $3 more per block than a cobalt blue and you don't get $3 worth of value for it. A loose mineral designed for your area or for your own operation is money well spent.
Our herd goes through mineral like wildfire during the winter months, won't touch it once the grass turns green regardless of what we add to it. Have concluded if they don't want it they don't need it.

Today I was at online ordering my 50 lb pail of Biotin crumbles, so I switched over to the salt/mineral pages. 50 lb bag of trace minerals was $20.99, and a 40 lb mineral salt block with the same percentage of the same trace minerals, was $20.99. So loose vs block is a no-brainer. They had 50lb bags form $16.79 to in the $30's. It just depended on what minerals and what percentage, Here when you send in your soil test to get the correct fertilizer mix and rate, the labs also report the percentage of minerals, so you can add them to your fertilizer. When you see your field or pasture has insufficient levels of a certain mineral or minerals, they tell you how much of each to add to the lbs per acre fertilizer mix. and you can use that to pick what loose minerals you need to buy to feed. You can't do that with a block. Plus adequate amount of blocks with just the "general" mineral mix, would be way more expensive than loose minerals, and a waste of money. Kinda like fertilizing pastures and hay fields. I know people who order standard blends...7-4-21, 5-10-15, 8-24-24, etc, at how ever many lbs per acre they think they can afford. They are wasting money unless they are putting out the correct percentage of the 3 components, at the rate called for in the soil test. They may as well take their money and run it through a shredder, and use it for mulch.

 

[gcreekrch]

Well I guess it happens... What kind of problems were you having and what was missing?

Mainly health issues in baby calves due to mineral imbalances in their mothers. Mainly copper but some things were too much and others too little in our feed and water. The money we spend on mineral is miniscule compared to dead and poorly doing calves and treating them for secondary problems.

 

[Travlr]

Mainly health issues in baby calves due to mineral imbalances in their mothers. Mainly copper but some things were too much and others too little in our feed and water. The money we spend on mineral is miniscule compared to dead and poorly doing calves and treating them for secondary problems.

That "too much and too little" really makes me wonder. Are there wild animals in the natural habitat that are having problems?

I have to admit that I'm skeptical of these people selling minerals as an all inclusive solution to problems. I see it as snake oil. On the other hand... I do know there are areas where some kind of deficiencies exist. And I do know that there are very small amounts of nutrients that can enhance health. But overall I'd bet that 90% of minerals are sold to assuage fears generated by advertising (including "articles/studies" meant to generate concern by people that want to do the best they can for their animals but without any real knowledge other than what they read in those articles/studies) and in the end the result is good feelings due to a placebo effect.

And not saying this is you... just that it happens.

 

[gcreekrch]

That "too much and too little" really makes me wonder. Are there wild animals in the natural habitat that are having problems?

I have to admit that I'm skeptical of these people selling minerals as an all inclusive solution to problems. I see it as snake oil. On the other hand... I do know there are areas where some kind of deficiencies exist. And I do know that there are very small amounts of nutrients that can enhance health. But overall I'd bet that 90% of minerals are sold to assuage fears generated by advertising (including "articles/studies" meant to generate concern by people that want to do the best they can for their animals but without any real knowledge other than what they read in those articles/studies) and in the end the result is good feelings due to a placebo effect.

And not saying this is you... just that it happens.

We and a nutritionist spent ten years getting it right. Improved health in about 15 herds that total about 3500 mother cows that now use our mix is likely a good indicator improvements were needed and paid off.