With me never used a rotational grazing methods with paddocks how does everyone size their paddocks? I finally closed on the other small pasture so now I have 20 acres together to rotate. There is a dry creek that separates the 2 fields so I will make me a creek crossing to connect the 2 together. Would it be better to judge 5 acres and make 4 paddocks or 3 larger paddocks? I only have 1 bull and 6 cows.
Paddock sizes
- Thread starter TNtrout23
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chaded
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Anything stopping you from making 8 paddocks?
Here is a website that you can look your land up on and map out acres by using pins. I have compared it with the fertilizer guys gps and it is pretty accurate with that along with some other programs.
www.mapdevelopers.com
Here is a website that you can look your land up on and map out acres by using pins. I have compared it with the fertilizer guys gps and it is pretty accurate with that along with some other programs.
Area Calculator - Outline a property on a google map and find its area
I have one pasture that is about 20 acres and I have it divided up into four sections of various sizes.
Travlr
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I only used three pastures on my small place in Arkansas. The grass there was very thick so the cows could be kept a couple of weeks in the smallest. Between the three pastures I could cut enough hay to winter my cattle on one of the larger, cut on 50/50 shares.
In SD I had a bigger place but the grasses were much more sparse. I had five large paddocks with some pretty apparent differences in grass types. Rotating helped the grass so much that after a couple of years, with some diligent management and some reseeding, I could double the number of cows I was running at first. I still cut enough hay from one that I could winter my cows, and again, the hay was cut on 50/50 shares.
Rotation depends on the rate at which your cattle are eating down your forage, and the rate at which your grass recovers. I watched the cattle and they would tell me when the grass was too short. They'd gather at the gate to the next pasture and be there when I'd check them in the afternoon.
You can use an electric wire to divide inside pastures. Cheap and easy to move.
TNtrout23
Well-known member
That's what I'm trying to get figured out is what sizes and if I want to do permanent cross fencing? All i can use is a solar charger and I really haven't ever used it so I'm not sure how good it is. Not only if I used it I would have to move it ever other rotation and drive extra ground rods. One side of the creek (10 acres) is good and thick. The other side is what I'm using right now with no cross fencing isn't the best but I am renting a drill and drilling some seed and wheat this fall to supplement.
How often does the rotation need to be. 7,14,21 days?
How often does the rotation need to be. 7,14,21 days?
Travlr
Well-known member
Watch your grass, and the cows. It isn't something anyone can tell you specifically. Rotate when the cows start pressing the fences and go from there.
4hfarms
Well-known member
When I had 6 cows I rotated every 7-12 days in 4-8ac fields, in strips, depending on rain and growth as traveler said. The sun grows the grass but if it gets too short it stunts recovery rate. Better to move them a day before they need it, than the day too late. Now I do daily. They seem to devour pastures if they go in hungry. I also try to top or cut the tops after they eat it. Weather it be a lawn mower or bushhog depending on how high the grass is when they are done.
If they are hot wire trained, solar is enough to rotate with. I only have a couple permenant fences that go around my place. I use wire to move them within, for the rest. Wife says I spend too much time with them, I enjoy my cows. Water seems to be my biggest problem, just cuz I haven't figured it out yet. Permanent fences limit the size of the pads. Limit the size of your herd. If you have a bull you will soon have more cows = bigger areas needed. Fence the outside well. Use strips of varying degree until you figure out the time it takes to eat. In a square they wonder aimlessly it seems. In strips they go back and forth as a group and therefore more efficiently cutting the grass.
If they are hot wire trained, solar is enough to rotate with. I only have a couple permenant fences that go around my place. I use wire to move them within, for the rest. Wife says I spend too much time with them, I enjoy my cows. Water seems to be my biggest problem, just cuz I haven't figured it out yet. Permanent fences limit the size of the pads. Limit the size of your herd. If you have a bull you will soon have more cows = bigger areas needed. Fence the outside well. Use strips of varying degree until you figure out the time it takes to eat. In a square they wonder aimlessly it seems. In strips they go back and forth as a group and therefore more efficiently cutting the grass.
chaded
Well-known member
If you can, run a single high tensile wire on the inside of your perimeter fence. Charge just that wire and then use polybraid on reels and hook them to the high tensile wire. With the perimeter wire hot you can hook on it anywhere and don't have to keep moving the charger. Just make sure it is working and has enough joules.
Nobody can tell you a prescribed period of time per paddock. There are a lot of variables like how big are the paddocks, how many animals, what kind of forage and how much is there, how has the weather been, how frequently do you want to make moves, etc.
It sort of becomes an art that you learn with experience and observation. My advice would be first the electric fence setup I mentioned. Then I would set up at least 4 paddocks but personally I would shoot for 8. Put the cows on it and watch. I watch the grass and tell my cows what to do. I am managing grass first and cows are just a tool. Leave enough grass for it to recover as quickly as it can. If you let them eat it to the dirt it will be a slow recovery.
Nobody can tell you a prescribed period of time per paddock. There are a lot of variables like how big are the paddocks, how many animals, what kind of forage and how much is there, how has the weather been, how frequently do you want to make moves, etc.
It sort of becomes an art that you learn with experience and observation. My advice would be first the electric fence setup I mentioned. Then I would set up at least 4 paddocks but personally I would shoot for 8. Put the cows on it and watch. I watch the grass and tell my cows what to do. I am managing grass first and cows are just a tool. Leave enough grass for it to recover as quickly as it can. If you let them eat it to the dirt it will be a slow recovery.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
@chaded nailed it. Don't put up any permanent interior fencing. Only use the polywire with push in posts. I would start with 8. NEVER let your cattle stay on same piece of ground over 7 days. This "might" vary location to location. But, all "experts" seem to agree with this main point.
Water in each paddock becomes an issue. You can have 1 alleyway going thru the middle of your 20 acres with paddocks off the sides. With polywire - you just move the line over at a gateway area to open up the next paddock. My main pastures are about 70 acres and ALL paddocks lead back to the water supply. My "main" pastures have 1 strand permanent fence now because I know what works. My main pastures are divided into 2, 3 or 4 little paddocks depending on the time of the year and the growth.
Water in each paddock becomes an issue. You can have 1 alleyway going thru the middle of your 20 acres with paddocks off the sides. With polywire - you just move the line over at a gateway area to open up the next paddock. My main pastures are about 70 acres and ALL paddocks lead back to the water supply. My "main" pastures have 1 strand permanent fence now because I know what works. My main pastures are divided into 2, 3 or 4 little paddocks depending on the time of the year and the growth.
kenny thomas
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A good rotation is 4 dsys or less. After 4 days the plants start to regrow and tge cows will concentrate on the new growth.
Your NRCS tech or Ag Extension Agent should be able to look at the soils map and help you predict the production and divide paddocks from that info.
Mark Reynolds
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It's great you are adopting a rotational grazing system! Before you go ANY further, Look up the 4 never fail rules of grazing. Or, give me a sec....
The four never fail rules of grazing
(cool season grasses)
(cool season grasses)
Never let livestock graze more than 7 continuous days on a pasture. 2
Never graze closer than 3 inches. 3
Never return to a pasture in less than 30 days. 4
Exceptions to the rules- USE CAUTIOUSLY!!
Warm Season grasses in the Western half of the US behave differently than cool season grasses in the East. These plants may require the formation of seed heads to survive. Consult a grazing specialist before deciding to graze warm season grasses, ANYWHERE! Their growth and survival requirements are very different from cool season grasses. Although, they do provide some very important benefits when used in conjunction with cool season grasses.
Grazing more than 7 continuous days results in animals regrazing plants that have resumed growth after being grazed off. These plants are targeted because they are more tender and succulent. This grazing pattern results in decreased vigor and loss of the most desirable plants in a pasture and spot grazing. However, grazing in a pasture for more than 7 consecutive days will not result in selective grazing if the plants are dormant. This occurs during the winter months and also during drought. Both of these are time periods when extended rest may be desirable over continued rotation.
Grazing closer than three inches can be used, and should be, when broadcast seeding is done for an existing pasture. The short grass promotes better seed to soil contact. Closer than a three inch grazing height is inefficient for cattle and results in reduced intake, which means lower weight gains, which means decreased profit. Grazing an actively growing plant closer than three inches will compromise its regrowth ability and lower its vigor. However, grazing a dormant plant closer than a three inch grazing height will not have near the adverse effect as an actively growing plant. This can be particularly important to know during a drought when forage may be scarce, but, plants are dormant. Don't turn the pasture into a dustbowl. Avoid crown damage and uprooting of plants.
It may be required that livestock are returned to a pasture before 30 days in rare springtime circumstances where the spring flush is particularly vigorous. This is required to prevent seed head formation, first in the list of general rules, and maintain growth throughout the year instead of getting all of your production at once. Extreme cases may actually require mowing to prevent seed head development due to rapid growth.
There we go. You can also look this up on line. There is a more detailed article that goes with this. If you have questions, ask ME specifically. This is designed to be very easy to follow, but answers from the author are likely to be more accurate.
This should be where you START your rotational grazing system by meeting these thresholds at a minimum.
Let me ask you a question, and I'm being serious with it. I want to, can, and will help you design a successful grazing system for your operation, but I need to know where you are starting from. "Why do YOU want a rotational grazing system?" Knowing that you want a rotational grazing system is the START of a solution, not the end product. There is a ways to go.
wbvs58
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Travlr
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Irrigation makes a difference too.
Mark Reynolds
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I sent you a separate message and I'd like to go over this with you. But I'll answer your question here. The understanding of rotational grazing goes well beyond this.
The 4 never fail rules covers the rotation. Graze a single pasture for no more than 7 continuous days. Rest (do not return to it) for 30 days (that's what I have as the rule, although I usually only rest for 28 days, and the next point is why, for convivence of fit.) If you do the math (and use 28 days rest instead of 30) you will calculate that you should have no fewer than 5 paddocks for the rotational grazing system to operate the way it is designed to. Forage utilization can increase substantially when you start decreasing the number of days on a pasture. This also means that you have to increase the number of pastures you have in order to get that minimum 30 days of rest for each pasture (or 28).
Travlr
Well-known member
Different climates, different grasses, different total areas, and different results over time may mean the four rules could be modifies to suit the specific pastures being rotated. Some pastures can barely support a week of grazing while others may easily support double that or more. The rules are a great start, but not written in stone. Only someone that knows what they are seeing can get the most out of their ground.I sent you a separate message and I'd like to go over this with you. But I'll answer your question here. The understanding of rotational grazing goes well beyond this.
The 4 never fail rules covers the rotation. Graze a single pasture for no more than 7 continuous days. Rest (do not return to it) for 30 days (that's what I have as the rule, although I usually only rest for 28 days, and the next point is why, for convivence of fit.) If you do the math (and use 28 days rest instead of 30) you will calculate that you should have no fewer than 5 paddocks for the rotational grazing system to operate the way it is designed to. Forage utilization can increase substantially when you start decreasing the number of days on a pasture. This also means that you have to increase the number of pastures you have in order to get that minimum 30 days of rest for each pasture (or 28).
Mark Reynolds
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You are absolutely correct that they are a start. They are designed to be the bare minimum for a proper functioning grazing system based on cool season grasses. The way grasses grow (and I am referring to sod forming cool season grasses for the most part including tall fescue, orchard grass, Kentucky bluegrass ( i need to check smooth brome) and the warm season grass, Bermuda grass) is that after 3 days the plant has regrowth and by day 5-6 this regrowth can be regrazed (and is preferred by the grazing animal). You, as the producer, want the animal to graze the more plentiful somewhat older but still significantly nutritious grasses within the pasture. Bearing this in mind, you want to size the paddocks/pastures such that the herd that is utilizing the pasture eats the forage to the target height within the 7 day maximum. If the pasture requires longer than 7 days to graze down to the target height, what happens is that the animals shift their focus to the lush, tender, new growth that started 3-4 days earlier. Grazing this lush new regrowth not only shifts the animals focus to a food source that is lacking in quantity to achieve the weight gains on the animals desired, it stresses the plants that are being regrazed way too soon, and also ends up allowing the ungrazed forage that you want to be grazed to continue to mature beyond optimum decreasing in palatibility as well as nutrition. If the pasture requires more than 7 days to graze it 'to completion', decrease the size of the paddock, or get more animals. If you graze the entire paddock to the target height (3-4 inches for CSG) in less than 7 days, move the animals to the next pasture at that point, or decrease animal numbers or increase paddock size if you are set on leaving the animals in a pasture for 7 days. Arguably, fewer than 7 days in a pasture is a good thing for many reasons, but it depends on individual producer goals and objectives.
Yes, seeing the actual pasture is a requirement to create a pasture rotation system that works the way it should.
Depends on how often you want to move them with only a few animals 1ac paddocks may be large enough.
I have learned that if I have temporary step in post and poly in the same spot two years in a row it may get permanent fence, way cheaper and less effort to find out by practice than guess wrong.
I have learned that if I have temporary step in post and poly in the same spot two years in a row it may get permanent fence, way cheaper and less effort to find out by practice than guess wrong.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
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Exactly. Use poly & step in posts for trial and error. If it works repeatedly - put up permanent fencing. If anything, you want your permanent fencing bigger rather than smaller. You can always sub-divide your larger paddock.
StrojanHerefords
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I agree that you don't want to add any permanent internal fencing. If you ever wanted to do any sort of cultural practice like seeding, fertilizing or tilling it is much easier to work one big field than a bunch of small ones. I personally like to divide fields into long strips a few hundred feet wide and then allot enough feed each day for the cattle to eat.
