Sac not breaking

[Dirt Farmer]

Last spring, my uncle had an older cow lose a calf because the amniotic sac didn't break. I was wondering if this is more prevalent in older cattle, nutrition related, or other factors. Any experience or information is appreciated.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

I think it is more related to the cotyledons letting go too soon. They are the "buttons" that hold the placenta to the uterus. When they release, there is no more oxygen going to the calf. In some cases, they release BEFORE the calf is expelled, thus the calf is born inside the sac. I had a heifer that did that; we saw the placental membranes coming out like the cow had calved already. I got right on it, and pulled the calf, but it was already dead.
Not sure why it happens though. She calved normally the next year.

 

[pdfangus]

thickened placenta I think is also a sign of fescue toxicosis...there are other causes though......
are the cows on fescue?

 

[Ebenezer]

I've read that it is mineral related.

 

[slick4591]

What about when you get there and the sac is still intact but hanging out of the cow?

 

[Dirt Farmer]

It's too dry for fescue out here. She had mediocre hay and access to mineral. I was thinking it might just be because she's so old. Keep the ideas coming and I'll try to dust off my Google-fu and see if I can find something.

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

thickened placenta I think is also a sign of fescue toxicosis...there are other causes though......
are the cows on fescue?

I think that is only in horses. We calve on fescue, and placentas are not abnormally thick. We did foal out a few mares when we first moved here. No one told us about fescue and pregnant mares. First foal did not get out of the sac, I could not even break it open with my hands! Second mare had no milk. I got the expensive paste on the last mare, and she foaled and had plenty of milk. Stopped breeding horses after that....to many issues on fescue.

 

[Nesikep]

while there probably are factors that worsen it, I think there's just a certain amount of bad luck with it too.. it happens sometimes.

 

[pdfangus]

thickened placenta I think is also a sign of fescue toxicosis...there are other causes though......
are the cows on fescue?

I think that is only in horses. We calve on fescue, and placentas are not abnormally thick. We did foal out a few mares when we first moved here. No one told us about fescue and pregnant mares. First foal did not get out of the sac, I could not even break it open with my hands! Second mare had no milk. I got the expensive paste on the last mare, and she foaled and had plenty of milk. Stopped breeding horses after that....to many issues on fescue.

The issue exist in cattle as well but is generally less critical than in horse's. Cattle more typically suffer more in the heat of summer...but calving problems, lack of milk, loss of tail, loss of toes are not uncommon

 

[bird dog]

Did the cow lick the sac off the dead calf?

Reason I ask is because I had a oldish cow (10yr) calve out a calf that was covered with the sac but had broke through enuf for the calf to breath. The cow didn't get up to lick off the calf. When I found them a 2 to 3 hours after calving, the cow got up and walked off like nothing was wrong. I checked the calf over, cleaned out its mouth and got it up. It scampered after the cow. The next morning the cow had a uterine prolapse and bled out. The calf was sitting beside her.

 

[Ned Jr.]

I've read that it is mineral related.

Can you elaborate on this?

 

[Dirt Farmer]

Did the cow lick the sac off the dead calf?

She was still working on it when we got there. The calf's face was covered though.

I'm tempted to chalk it up to luck like Nesikep said but am curious about Ebenezer's mineral idea. It seems like it could be mineral or nutrition related.

 

[Dirt Farmer]

I think it is more related to the cotyledons letting go too soon.

Any idea why this would happen?

 

[Ebenezer]

I've read that it is mineral related.

Can you elaborate on this?

I'll see what I can find. Seems it was a deficiency of a mineral or vitamin. I remember parts but not all and it has been a while. For a while I might know the joke but not the punchline and I might just know the punchline and not the joke. Good thing I was not a Dr. to tell folks that they have a problem with their what-cha-ma-call-it.

 

[Ebenezer]

http://www.fieldscience.co.uk/documents/MineralDeficiencySymptomChart.pdf About the 5th or 6th listed. Se deficiency. I thought that was the issue but wanted to be sure.

 

[Ned Jr.]

http://www.fieldscience.co.uk/documents/MineralDeficiencySymptomChart.pdf About the 5th or 6th listed. Se deficiency. I thought that was the issue but wanted to be sure.

Thanks for posting that! That's interesting. I've had calving seasons it's seemed the amniotic sacs were
thicker and I've had more than normal malpresentations. Maybe they were low on selenium...??? They're getting selenium this year so it'll be interesting to see if it makes a difference.

 

[Putangitangi]

Last spring, my uncle had an older cow lose a calf because the amniotic sac didn't break. I was wondering if this is more prevalent in older cattle, nutrition related, or other factors. Any experience or information is appreciated.

When you write that it didn't break, do you mean it came out entirely within an unbroken sac or just that it was still over the front of the calf? If the latter, many of mine do that. Some have a tear further back and so when they move or if the cow delivers from standing, the membranes are dragged off their faces.

Maybe some bits of the sac are thicker than other bits, all depends how they come out. Cattle have been bred for so long, we may have bred in some unhelpful traits/habits. For instance, some of my cow families routinely stand to calve, others always deliver lying down. The standing ones rarely deliver calves with membranes still intact but often they land on their own twisted necks, which can be a hazard in itself. I might have bred too much of one habit or another into my herd.

 

[Dirt Farmer]

When you write that it didn't break, do you mean it came out entirely within an unbroken sac or just that it was still over the front of the calf?[/quote]

She had licked most of the sac off but it was still underneath the calf. I'm assuming the sac did not break.

 

[Son of Butch]

Interesting that it lists Nervous, Twitchy behavior - Selenium, Cobalt deficiency - common in Limousines

 

[Nesikep]

Interesting that it lists Nervous, Twitchy behavior - Selenium, Cobalt deficiency - common in Limousines

Some breeds need more of certain minerals than others.. I think continentals need a bit more copper IIRC