Transitioning to grass-fed

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

People are probably tired reading how I finish, but here goes.
First, I gave PB Simmental cattle, heavy muscled fast growing.
We only feed our fall born steers. About a month before weaning, we start putting small amount of whole shell corn in the calf shed for them. Wean about 6.5 to 7 months old. Immediately start them on 1% bw of WSC with a 32% protein to make a 14% ration. After 2 weeks, slowly increase corn til you are feeding 3% bw.
I finish mine at 12-13 months old. They will hang a 750# carcass and easily grade choice.
WSC is the cheapest and healthiest grain to push a steer to finish.
We have 2 kill dates this month. I will post a thread with the results.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I feed about 2 ton of WSC to a steer to finish, so at $280/ton, I'm putting about $560 into a steer. They have free choice grass/hay until about end of Aug. Then free choice hay only.
Steers are on about 20# each a day, fed each am and pm.

 

[Cowman42]

I have yet to see a grass fed beef producer selling a 30 month steer on Craigs list. Most that I see advertised on CL as grass fed are around 18 to 20 months.

I sell 30-36 month old steers on grass and pasture only. I advertise on Craigslist for new customers and then word of mouth usually does the rest. My Highland/Galloway/Red Angus cross have been hanging between 780lbs and 810lbs They get a very good amount of IM fat but very little back fat covering the carcass. I learned that keeping them back half a year longer really put the flavor to them. Stuff is the best beef I have ever had. No fancy steakhouse can compete. The fat is always a clean crisp white too. I am still confused about all this talk of grass fed beef and the yellow fat?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

You may be finishing last few weeks on hay? The Beta-caroteen in all green grass produces the yellow fat.

 

[Cowman42]

There are soooo many variables between grass finished/fed and grain fed. This is an old thread so OP might not even see it. The waters distinguishing the two are very, very murky, aside from the omega fatty acids, and then time on grass and time on grain has an impact on the final outcome that is determined by more than just the final 60 or 120 days of the animal's life. And then, how much beef are you eating to see a difference in yourself on the omega fatty acids? The final product is one thing to consider. The way it is produced is an entirely different matter.

You may be finishing last few weeks on hay? The Beta-caroteen in all green grass produces the yellow fat.

Nope. I stop feeding hay (first cut Orchard/Clover) in early May. I don't butcher until late June or early July after the spring flush. I rotate fast through 6 pastures and they put on a bit more fat in the spring. I also butcher in Late November or early December. My pastures are permanent, primarily orchard/novel tall fescue/meadow fescue. With red/white clovers and a good bit of Birdsfoot Trefoil. I have never had a carcass come up yellow. I have always been told I should have some. My butcher also showed me a bunch of other grass fed beef from our area and most of it had a yellow tinge. Even the deer here have white fat. I had some moose once from the trails north of the Eureka Roadhouse AK it was yellow as a songbird. I don't know why.

 

[Travlr]

Nope. I stop feeding hay (first cut Orchard/Clover) in early May. I don't butcher until late June or early July after the spring flush. I rotate fast through 6 pastures and they put on a bit more fat in the spring. I also butcher in Late November or early December. My pastures are permanent, primarily orchard/novel tall fescue/meadow fescue. With red/white clovers and a good bit of Birdsfoot Trefoil. I have never had a carcass come up yellow. I have always been told I should have some. My butcher also showed me a bunch of other grass fed beef from our area and most of it had a yellow tinge. Even the deer here have white fat. I had some moose once from the trails north of the Eureka Roadhouse AK it was yellow as a songbird. I don't know why.

It's been my experience that older animals have yellower fat.

 

[ClinchValley86]

These are grass fed and finished. Hung around 740 to 810 pounds. Took a good bit of time though. Getting excellent feedback.
Simangus and LimFlex

 

[Cowman42]

These are grass fed and finished. Hung around 740 to 810 pounds. Took a good bit of time though. Getting excellent feedback.
Simangus and LimFlex

I wouldn't consider that yellow. Fat's a bit more colorful than mine though. I am getting HW about that also and takes me 30-36months. How long for you to get them there? I took a look at your farm's Facebook, That red clover looked awesome. Did you notice heavy legume, changing the beef color and flavor? I found a couple articles mentioning heavy legumes can change the flavor and maybe influence fat color. Course I found a bunch of articles saying grass does it? I have tried finishing on round bales of alfalfa in the past. I didn't notice anything abnormal except the hooves. Alfalfa hay made all my cattle grow LONG slippers in just a few months. I can't get a hoof trimmer here so I was out in the mud with a mallet and a chisel. Never fed alfalfa again.

 

[Rmc]

If alfalfa effected the hoofs on you cows feet it was genetic. Thousands and thousands of cattle in the intermountain west are feed alfalfa 3-7 months a year their entire lives.

 

[Cowman42]

If alfalfa effected the hoofs on you cows feet it was genetic. Thousands and thousands of cattle in the intermountain west are feed alfalfa 3-7 months a year their entire lives.

I am pretty sure that that is the case. I recently visited a half dozen grass based herds looking for a new bull. Red Devons, some Angus, some Hereford X herds. All the Devons fed alfalfa had some pretty long hooves. I started with Highlands and then crossed them to Black and Red Angus bulls. Figured all that hair would keep feed down in the winter. The Angus bulls never did get long feet. That said they did have a tendency to hide under the hay in the real cold.

 

[Travlr]

Alfalfa hay made all my cattle grow LONG slippers in just a few months. I can't get a hoof trimmer here so I was out in the mud with a mallet and a chisel. Never fed alfalfa again.

Got some pretty big doubts about that. Most people feed alfalfa if they have it, and I'm no exception. I've never had a cow with bad feet that I didn't buy that way. Mistakes happen. Then we breed our way out of them.

 

[Ebenezer]

Got some pretty big doubts about that. Most people feed alfalfa if they have it, and I'm no exception. I've never had a cow with bad feet that I didn't buy that way. Mistakes happen. Then we breed our way out of them.

It is said that in sheep, excessive feed causes more need of hoof trimming. It could be that the cattle breeds that have lower growth rates or individuals of major breeds will have more trouble on a richer diet. That was the tendency of offspring of an Angus bull that was born in 1996 and was widely used. It carried into generations past the first. Been there, done that. Chunked the rest of the semen out of the tank.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

You could have foundered your cattle with too high a protein diet for their growth. Not necessarily "the feed" perse - but the PROTEIN of the feed and amount fed.

It irritates me to hear "grass finished" is healthier. PROVE IT. Let me see the RESEARCH proving that statement. Yes, people play with numbers based on %fat vs %lean meat with the Omega 3's. But, according to beef department at Cornell University, it's just a numbers game. If they test apples to apples on fat vs red meat on one carcass compared to another, GRAIN fed beef is the healthiest according to the ONLY real research was done at Texas A&M University. https://animalscience.tamu.edu/2013...rass-fed-and-grain-fed-cattle-does-it-matter/

Here's a more up to date - thru Michigan State University - the largest study:

Is Grass-Fed Beef Healthier than Conventional? — Sacred Cow

We often hear of the nutritional benefits of grass-fed and grass-finished beef when compared to conventional beef. But what does the data actually say? Read on for my review of the latest science.

www.sacredcow.info

READ THE REPORTS. Don't just repeat what you have been told. Just because someone SAYS it doesn't mean it's TRUE:

There is a lot that can be said about the differences in fat composition, but some key focus points are as follows:

• Grass-fed beef is leaner.
• Both have a similar concentration of saturated fat (45% of total fat).
• The omega-6 to omega-3 ratio is far lower in grass-fed beef.
• Conventional beef provides more CLA.
  Of the four major points above, the only one of real merit is that grass-fed beef is leaner. That 5-gram difference in total fat content translates to 45 Calories per 100 grams of beef, which can easily add up for someone eating a lot of beef and who has a low energy requirement. Still, one could just opt for leaner cuts of conventional beef, such as eye of round which has 2.5 grams of fat per 100 grams of beef.

I really don't care one way or the other if someone wants to grass finish - BUT, KNOW what you are producing. Get your head out of the sand and research - and I don't mean google on your phone for blah blah info that a talking head is spouting.

The length of time involved in in grass finish vs grain finish "should" also be a factor. Time is money.

 

[ClinchValley86]

@Cowman42 The fat was super pretty and white I though as well. These were right around 40 months. I think the clover created some awesome flavor. But to be true. There are over 30 species growing in the pastures. All kinds of stuff.

They had unsprayed mixed grass hay in winter, nothing special. They lost condition last winter and had to play catch up this year. I did put protein tubs out last winter, the hay was lacking.

I'm happy with how it turned out. Got folks who are in love with it. Asking to put a deposit on another one. The ribeye I ate could be cut with a spoon.

I got a few that will be rolled to next year. Probably hang at 1000 pounds by next fall.

 

[ClinchValley86]

I wouldn't consider that yellow. Fat's a bit more colorful than mine though. I am getting HW about that also and takes me 30-36months. How long for you to get them there? I took a look at your farm's Facebook, That red clover looked awesome. Did you notice heavy legume, changing the beef color and flavor? I found a couple articles mentioning heavy legumes can change the flavor and maybe influence fat color. Course I found a bunch of articles saying grass does it? I have tried finishing on round bales of alfalfa in the past. I didn't notice anything abnormal except the hooves. Alfalfa hay made all my cattle grow LONG slippers in just a few months. I can't get a hoof trimmer here so I was out in the mud with a mallet and a chisel. Never fed alfalfa again.

Red clover hay would be a safer bet than alfalfa. But I'd look for some high feed value mixed hay. You want to feed them some diversity. No off flavors that way. Everything meshes well. Happier animals probably too. I'd get tired of eating the same thing.

Mine select differently morning vs evening. I'm pretty sure it's the BRIX content. But interesting none the less.

 

[kenny thomas]

@Cowman42 The fat was super pretty and white I though as well. These were right around 40 months. I think the clover created some awesome flavor. But to be true. There are over 30 species growing in the pastures. All kinds of stuff.

They had unsprayed mixed grass hay in winter, nothing special. They lost condition last winter and had to play catch up this year. I did put protein tubs out last winter, the hay was lacking.

I'm happy with how it turned out. Got folks who are in love with it. Asking to put a deposit on another one. The ribeye I ate could be cut with a spoon.

I got a few that will be rolled to next year. Probably hang at 1000 pounds by next fall.

You and i have discussed this a little and its hard to pinpoint 40 months out, but is it as profitable to keep them 40 months to slaughter?

 

[ClinchValley86]

@kenny thomas Lots of variables I suppose. That's the part I'm having trouble with. I'm only grossing $4,400 on an 800 lb carcass selling in shares, mostly quarters. So not really any big money in it. I feel bad pricing it what I've had to.

These were all steers. I will be processing 3 and 4 year old culls that have given a calf or two starting next year. That will help things.

Also got the corn finished thing to help cash flow.

It's a crapshoot. Lol. There is a better route. Just got to find it.

I do believe grazing annuals could help with gain.

Then there's the option of harvesting them a year earlier at a lighter weight. Hanging around 550 or 600 I'd say.

Takes so long to try different things with cattle. I just know I like big carcasses. And want to be able to guarantee the animals life history. Probably a lost cause. But here I am.

I love short legged cattle too. So who knows.

If a person got a perpetual thing going, and had them in the field in stages, it'd take 3 years to get to where you're seeing the fruits.

I think the way forward for me is to find local producers who manage similarly as me, chemicals-wise, and buy their young culls. I'm trying to establish that network now.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

@kenny thomas Lots of variables I suppose. That's the part I'm having trouble with. I'm only grossing $4,400 on an 800 lb carcass selling in shares, mostly quarters. So not really any big money in it. I feel bad pricing it what I've had to.

These were all steers. I will be processing 3 and 4 year old culls that have given a calf or two starting next year. That will help things.

Also got the corn finished thing to help cash flow.

It's a crapshoot. Lol. There is a better route. Just got to find it.

I do believe grazing annuals could help with gain.

Then there's the option of harvesting them a year earlier at a lighter weight. Hanging around 550 or 600 I'd say.

Takes so long to try different things with cattle. I just know I like big carcasses. And want to be able to guarantee the animals life history. Probably a lost cause. But here I am.

I love short legged cattle too. So who knows.

If a person got a perpetual thing going, and had them in the field in stages, it'd take 3 years to get to where you're seeing the fruits.

I think the way forward for me is to find local producers who manage similarly as me, chemicals-wise, and buy their young culls. I'm trying to establish that network now.

You just mentioned grazing annuals. Talk to NRCS and inquire about practice 810. I suspect you might find it intriguing.

 

[kenny thomas]

@kenny thomas Lots of variables I suppose. That's the part I'm having trouble with. I'm only grossing $4,400 on an 800 lb carcass selling in shares, mostly quarters. So not really any big money in it. I feel bad pricing it what I've had to.

These were all steers. I will be processing 3 and 4 year old culls that have given a calf or two starting next year. That will help things.

Also got the corn finished thing to help cash flow.

It's a crapshoot. Lol. There is a better route. Just got to find it.

I do believe grazing annuals could help with gain.

Then there's the option of harvesting them a year earlier at a lighter weight. Hanging around 550 or 600 I'd say.

Takes so long to try different things with cattle. I just know I like big carcasses. And want to be able to guarantee the animals life history. Probably a lost cause. But here I am.

I love short legged cattle too. So who knows.

If a person got a perpetual thing going, and had them in the field in stages, it'd take 3 years to get to where you're seeing the fruits.

I think the way forward for me is to find local producers who manage similarly as me, chemicals-wise, and buy their young culls. I'm trying to establish that network now.

I think the new bull will make a big difference in the calves but of course thats a ways off yet.

 

[Rmc]

You could have foundered your cattle with too high a protein diet for their growth. Not necessarily "the feed" perse - but the PROTEIN of the feed and amount fed.

It irritates me to hear "grass finished" is healthier. PROVE IT. Let me see the RESEARCH proving that statement.

Here's a more up to date - thru Michigan State University - the largest study:

Is Grass-Fed Beef Healthier than Conventional? — Sacred Cow

We often hear of the nutritional benefits of grass-fed and grass-finished beef when compared to conventional beef. But what does the data actually say? Read on for my review of the latest science.

www.sacredcow.info

READ THE REPORTS. Don't just repeat what you have been told. Just because someone SAYS it doesn't mean it's TRUE:

Time is money.

Fatty Acid Composition of Grain- and Grass-Fed Beef and Their Nutritional Value and Health Implication

Beef contains functional fatty acids such as conjugated linoleic acid and long-chain fatty acids. This review summarizes results from studies comparing the fatty acid composition of beef from cattle fed either grass or grain-based feed. Since functional ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Article using multiple data points from numerous research of grass vs grain fed.
With links to all the original research.
Your right time is money feeder a harvested feed will be more expensive than natural grazing. More ,time ,energy,fuel used to feed a concentrated ration then grazing.