We may all be missing the boat, by not raising Corrientes!

[Shoestring]

You're about to lose some teeth Cowboy. Lol

*removable * teeth

 

[salebarn junkie]

Everything I say, Skippy, is the truth. Are you calling me a liar too? You wanna come down here and see for yourself? The cows are still on it, Tell ya what, hoss....you come down here and if this pasture is all dirt, I will give you $5k cash. Just bring $5k with you to pay me once you see it is like I said. Put your money where your mouth is, son. Or have you let your mouth wriote a check your ass can't cash? Hard to put any credibility in something someone who hasn't a damned clue what...or WHO.. they are talking about says.

Trying to decide if you remind me more of the Roy D Mercer skits on the radio or Ernest T Bass on Andy Griffin. I don't know everything but I do know you can't take your entire steer crop of 1/2 corriente steers and top the market, maybe some of them will, but you'll have some dogs in that group. As far as the pasture that's a lot of pounds of cattle for logged out 200 acres. What do I know though maybe corrientes are magic.

 

[simme]

That's true, in the northern parts, if you lime fertilize, 24D it, keep it mowed, etc. You can easily run a pair per acre. From about Macon on down, it is flat land, and sandy soil. They can raise as much or more hay and row crops per acre as we do, they just have too irrigate. Lots of rivers and creeks down there, so water is plentiful for this.

I don't live in north Georgia, but I can almost see it from my front porch. I don't know anyone that easily runs a cow-calf pair per acre year round. Maybe some of those mini cows with mini calves.

Everything I say, Skippy, is the truth. Are you calling me a liar too? You wanna come down here and see for yourself? The cows are still on it, Tell ya what, hoss....you come down here and if this pasture is all dirt, I will give you $5k cash. Just bring $5k with you to pay me once you see it is like I said. Put your money where your mouth is, son. Or have you let your mouth wriote a check your ass can't cash? Hard to put any credibility in something someone who hasn't a damned clue what...or WHO.. they are talking about says.

I think I hear the fat lady warming up and about ready to sing.

 

[EasTex]

On a positive note, this post sure has received a lot of activity

 

[Dave]

For years on here I have been listening to people for the Southeast complain about the price they get for their cattle. Raising cattle like these could be part of the problem. Not that there aren't good cattle raised there. But if an area gets a reputation for poor doing cattle, right or wrong, It hurts all the cattle sold in that area.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Ky Hill - back to your question - CAB - live cattle must be 51% black hided - must be BEEF type breed and no humped cattle (from memory about the humped cattle - I didn't look it up recently).

 

[Warren Allison]

Ky Hill - back to your question - CAB - live cattle must be 51% black hided - must be BEEF type breed and no humped cattle (from memory about the humped cattle - I didn't look it up recently).

Yep. The 10 requirements are on that link I posted.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

''Good night David'' , Good night Chet....good night America....

 

[J+ Cattle]

I went to Intermountain Livestock in La Grande Oregon today to watch the sale. They had a group of 50 black steers weighing right at 600. Too many for their ring at one time. So they ran in 25 weighed them on the ring scale. The buyers cut one out. Then they ran in the second group weighed them. Buyers cut out 2. They then sold 47 steers in one shot. They brought $170.25 cwt. They sold the cut outs individually. The 2 Longhorn cross calves brought 84 and 77 cents respectively. The third one looked to be a quarter Holstein. It brought $1.24. Those Longhorns cost just as much to raise as those straight Angus. The Angus steers brought $1,021.50. The Longhorn cross calves brought $504 and $462. I sure can't afford to raise that kind of calves.

This post clearly illustrates the difference in the return potential of the cattle that you raise. The feedlots don't want cattle that aren't going to gain quickly and grade at least decent. If it's your business and livelihood then you do everything to maximize your return, if your in it for fun or a hobby then you can do as you want and raise mongrel cattle. Some of us spend lots of time to vaccinate, wean, and pre-condition cattle before going to the sale to get a few more cents per pound. Uniformity and larger lots helps some too. Long ago when I first got started in the cattle business a sale barn manager told me, "you need a better bull", count that as some of the best advice you can ever receive.

J+ Cattle

 

[JParrott]

For years on here I have been listening to people for the Southeast complain about the price they get for their cattle. Raising cattle like these could be part of the problem. Not that there aren't good cattle raised there. But if an area gets a reputation for poor doing cattle, right or wrong, It hurts all the cattle sold in that area.

I've heard many people say around here that they outright won't buy or won't pay close to the same for cattle out of Kentucky and Tennessee. Not like the climate and vegetation is that much different but the reputation persists regardless from some trends encountered years ago.

 

[Ky hills]

@Dave @JParrott I've heard all those stereotypes and explanations about cattle from the southeast. May well be some credibility to them originally, but like most other things improvements have definitely been made. I have done quite a bit of sitting at several stockyards over the years, and yes there are many cattle come through the ring that make you wonder why anyone would be satisfied with having cattle like that, That being said, those are usually singles from very small outfits. There are quite a few good calves sold as singles or small groups as well. Most are already steers and increasingly more and more people are are weaning, and vaccinating calves before selling. There are also several larger size lots to sell in most sales too. In comparison there are very few ear cattle and criollo type cattle. At any average random day sale there will only be maybe a couple of each of those if at all. Most cattle are now black, some Charolais crosses, very few red and even fewer Herefords.
In recent years, cattlemen in the area have been putting more emphasis on genetic quality and value added protocols as well as handling facilities and nutrition.
Kentucky is ranked 8'th in the nation for number of beef cattle and is the largest beef cattle producing state east of the Mississippi River.
I could show folks many cattle farms with as good of quality cattle around here as could be found anywhere in the nation, unfortunately the lasting impression would likely be the very few low quality, lack of management few head outfits that would be remembered and used to justify pigeon holing everything else.

 

[Warren Allison]

@Dave @JParrott I've heard all those stereotypes and explanations about cattle from the southeast. May well be some credibility to them originally, but like most other things improvements have definitely been made. I have done quite a bit of sitting at several stockyards over the years, and yes there are many cattle come through the ring that make you wonder why anyone would be satisfied with having cattle like that, That being said, those are usually singles from very small outfits. There are quite a few good calves sold as singles or small groups as well. Most are already steers and increasingly more and more people are are weaning, and vaccinating calves before selling. There are also several larger size lots to sell in most sales too. In comparison there are very few ear cattle and criollo type cattle. At any average random day sale there will only be maybe a couple of each of those if at all. Most cattle are now black, some Charolais crosses, very few red and even fewer Herefords.
In recent years, cattlemen in the area have been putting more emphasis on genetic quality and value added protocols as well as handling facilities and nutrition.
Kentucky is ranked 8'th in the nation for number of beef cattle and is the largest beef cattle producing state east of the Mississippi River.
I could show folks many cattle farms with as good of quality cattle around here as could be found anywhere in the nation, unfortunately the lasting impression would likely be the very few low quality, lack of management few head outfits that would be remembered and used to justify pigeon holing everything else.

 

[puzzled in oregon]

I think it is time for some of you to put down your sharp little sticks and quit taking jabs at Warren. If you go back and re-read all (and I do mean all in its entirety) that has been stated in this thread/forum (whatever it should be referred to as), I think you would find some of you have jumped to a lot of inaccurate conclusions. Warren has taken time to respond to a lot of comments and questions that were not nicely stated. Yes, he has a colorful way of expressing himself but so did my Dad and some of his friends.

Warren: I want to wish you and your friend many years of enjoyable hunting

 

[Warren Allison]

@Dave @JParrott I've heard all those stereotypes and explanations about cattle from the southeast. May well be some credibility to them originally, but like most other things improvements have definitely been made. I have done quite a bit of sitting at several stockyards over the years, and yes there are many cattle come through the ring that make you wonder why anyone would be satisfied with having cattle like that, That being said, those are usually singles from very small outfits. There are quite a few good calves sold as singles or small groups as well. Most are already steers and increasingly more and more people are are weaning, and vaccinating calves before selling. There are also several larger size lots to sell in most sales too. In comparison there are very few ear cattle and criollo type cattle. At any average random day sale there will only be maybe a couple of each of those if at all. Most cattle are now black, some Charolais crosses, very few red and even fewer Herefords.
In recent years, cattlemen in the area have been putting more emphasis on genetic quality and value added protocols as well as handling facilities and nutrition.
Kentucky is ranked 8'th in the nation for number of beef cattle and is the largest beef cattle producing state east of the Mississippi River.
I could show folks many cattle farms with as good of quality cattle around here as could be found anywhere in the nation, unfortunately the lasting impression would likely be the very few low quality, lack of management few head outfits that would be remembered and used to justify pigeon holing everything else.

I am sure that a lot of it has to do with the distance to the mid-west and western feedlots, too. I would think that a buyer could pay more per pound for cattle at a say, Kansas or Nebraska sale, than a south Ga or LA ( lower Alabama) , or Florida sale. As a buyer, you'd have to factor in transportation costs, too. Another thing that probably figures into, is that most people here, pull the calves off the cows and haul them to the sale barn. Most everyone I have ever known my whole life does it this way. The same reasoning would apply to explain why people don't wean and feed out calves for 90 days before they sell them: It would be expensive to ship corn from the mid-west to down here to feed weaned calves. People raise some corn down here, but it mostly goes to the chicken industry. Ga's biggest livestock industry is poultry. We have more chicken houses, especially in the northern half, than Carter's has little pills.

In the 80's and 90's for many years, Ga was the 3rd largest cow-calf producing state , behind Florida and Hawaii, of all places. But not now. Too much industry, and too many subdivisions have taken up a LOT of pasture land up here, and what land there is is way to high to buy for farming.

 

[Dave]

Someone who doesn't own or raise cattle come on to a cattle discussion board and starts a thread labeled we are all idiots..... for not doing what a friend of his does. Gets defensive when people question what he posts. By his own admission " I detest cows.. but I love working them on a good horse" doesn't like cattle. Says he won't be on foot around cattle. I believe this is the very definition of, "All Hat and no cow." Playing with cows on a horse certainly doesn't a cattleman or cowboy make.

 

[Bigfoot]

@Dave @JParrott I've heard all those stereotypes and explanations about cattle from the southeast. May well be some credibility to them originally, but like most other things improvements have definitely been made. I have done quite a bit of sitting at several stockyards over the years, and yes there are many cattle come through the ring that make you wonder why anyone would be satisfied with having cattle like that, That being said, those are usually singles from very small outfits. There are quite a few good calves sold as singles or small groups as well. Most are already steers and increasingly more and more people are are weaning, and vaccinating calves before selling. There are also several larger size lots to sell in most sales too. In comparison there are very few ear cattle and criollo type cattle. At any average random day sale there will only be maybe a couple of each of those if at all. Most cattle are now black, some Charolais crosses, very few red and even fewer Herefords.
In recent years, cattlemen in the area have been putting more emphasis on genetic quality and value added protocols as well as handling facilities and nutrition.
Kentucky is ranked 8'th in the nation for number of beef cattle and is the largest beef cattle producing state east of the Mississippi River.
I could show folks many cattle farms with as good of quality cattle around here as could be found anywhere in the nation, unfortunately the lasting impression would likely be the very few low quality, lack of management few head outfits that would be remembered and used to justify pigeon holing everything else.

I think in our area, we get some guilt by association. In other words a lot of unvaccinated trailer weaned cattle go to market. We all kinda get placed on that canoe.

I only have one contact to sell a trailer load with. Sold on Superior once, did good. Sold next time and did bad. Went back to the original, and he took my steers last year. I "hope" that happens again. I did cut off a sprinkling of calves I didn't wont to pull the group down.

 

[Ky hills]

@Warren Allison yes, the distance and trucking are logical reasons for a lower price. I agree that weaning and having calves on feed is another expense especially if there you have to buy your feed. A lot of folks here are starting to wean and background, vaccinate their calves. I would venture to say now that the majority here do. We have been doing this too for several years. Occasionally, we will have late born or odd timing so we sell them right off the cow but certainly prefer to have them value added at sale time.

 

[Rydero]

Someone who doesn't own or raise cattle come on to a cattle discussion board and starts a thread labeled we are all idiots..... for not doing what a friend of his does. Gets defensive when people question what he posts. By his own admission " I detest cows.. but I love working them on a good horse" doesn't like cattle. Says he won't be on foot around cattle. I believe this is the very definition of, "All Hat and no cow." Playing with cows on a horse certainly doesn't a cattleman or cowboy make.

Thanks, you put that better than I could myself after he insulted my entire country. The whole, " I won't lift a finger doing X but I'll do Y" bit doesn't sound like the cattle folks I know. We pitch in and do what needs doing, we're not too good and picking and choosing what we do. I've got little use for arrogant, blowhards who think they're better than everyone. Now that I'm done sharpening this stick I'll go back to greasing the baler.

 

[southalberta]

Please define what you mean by "presort sales".

Like weight and color of weaned calves regardless of owner are put in a group in our fall runs.
Never had any dockage at all (only sell solids mine you)

 

[southalberta]

Yes and no.

Yes, the earliest criollo, which means creole, came from the south east part of Spain with Colon but they primarily landed in Espaniola or Santo Domino islands in the 15th century. The cracker cattle of Florida probably has its origin there. Those Andalusian cattle came from Egypt through the Gibraltar straight during the Moorish invasion of Spain. However, the bulk of the migration from Spain to Northern Mexico was in the 17 century from the north east part of Spain (Galicia, Basque, Santander regions). Those cows are the line of the Texas Longhorn and the corriente cattle. Those cows are a lot more docile and less aggressive than the southern Spain cattle. Same root but 200 years of difference in breeding and handling. That's why I said that most likely the corriente of Texas have more of the Asturian valley cows than of the Andalusian creole, which is more like the Lidia breed in bullfights.

Again, to say corrientes are a breed is an oxymoron, a contradiction of terms regardless if they are established in the US with a web page and all. It's a mutt cow. It's perhaps what most cows if left alone would eventually revert to in the mountains: lean, agile, aggressive, and horned. This is not a jab at anyone here who owns corriente. I have soft spot for them too, but to call them a breed is comical to me. Its a marketing ploy to increase the value of the cattle.

What about black angus, that's a mutt. Black Charlois?
Polled Hereford?