Where to begin!!!!????

[suitep123]

Hello - I am in California. We were hoping to do this in Tennessee but we have been handed an opportunity to get some cattle running on 104 acres right here in California. Our house is for sale, but the real estate market here is just tanked. The property is 104 acres, has not been worked or attended to in any way for at least two years. There is a substantial amount of dry feed. We only have a 1 year lease on the property. It could end up going longer, but we can only count on 1 year. Therefore we know we do not want to go with a cow/calf operation. We are leaning toward a small beef cattle, stocker operation. We have heard that we should not buy cattle until October or November to get them acclamated, that ground worked a bit, and cattle settled into a routine for when grasses come. We really need to turn a profit. We have limited capital to invest in cattle. We have been working cattle with friends for two years - we have learned a ton, but admit there is a ton left to learn as well! We are working on perimeter fence repair, with a single wire stand off electric to follow. Then temporary fencing to do some controlled (intense) grazing. Because of the cost of 500 - 600 pound calves, we have though about getting a bunch of drop calves to feed up til grass comes, which should be about weaning age. Problem being, most drop calves available are dairy cattle that do not gain as quickly as beef cattle - correct? How can we get enough cattle on this property as soon as possible, and still expect to turn some sort of profit come May 2008? Does anyone have any other suggestions on how to do this? We are open to any and all suggestions at this point. Thank you so much! - Pauline

 

[Nowland Farms]

Pauline,

Since no one else has replied here goes.

If you want to make a profit off the 104 acres, go rent it to somone and get all the money for the year upfront and put the money in the bank.

I'm not trying to be a smartalek but you have so many limitations (fence, time, price, etc....) it is going to be very hard to turn a profit in one year. It can be done if you are wise and lucky. It's like playing the quick profit stock market. The closest you will come is to buy very heavy bred 4 - 6 year old cows or same in 3 in 1s. Calf them out and bred the cows back and then sell them in May of 2008. Hope the market doesn't take a dive between the time you buy and the time you sell. The stars and everything else would have to align perfectly to make a profit in 10 months.

Just my opinion.

 

[Sir Loin]

Re:

Does anyone have any other suggestions on how to do this? We are open to any and all suggestions at this point.

Goats! Goats and more goats.
Buy all the young goats you can find. Graze them as long as you can then run an add in a Latino news paper for "live goats" and double your money in 6 months.
SL

 

[MikeC]

Run stockers for someone else.

They are paying .40 -.45 cents per lb here.

You might get more.

Cost of Gain in the feedlots are running around $1.

There ain't gonna be a windfall profit on 100 acres though.

 

[suitep123]

We do not have much invested in the fencing repairs, maybe another $750 - $1000 will button it up. We are 1/2 way done with the repairs, but the rest of the fences look pretty good. We will need to invest about $1500 to get the electric up and running. We have springs all over the property, one developed, and it can be gravity fed to an existing trough in the middle of the property via cheap black garden pipe following a creek-bed. There is another spring on the back side of the property that can be tapped into and gravity fed as well - BUT we probably won't have time to do that one. There is a 30 year old undeveloped well we would like to be able to get going for the front of the property. We have borrowed trucks, a tractor, bikes, etc. The biggest hurdle is getting the darned cattle! So really, our expenses aren't all that high yet. The county farm advisor said there is a lot of forage present that can be converted to good forage with the use of protein tubs. This is what we were planning on doing - we just thought we could get cattle running within the next few weeks rather than waiting til October or November. Farm advisor said about half the forage as it stands has about 5% protein and a full-grown dry cow needs 8%, so we will have to supplement til spring when things start to really come in. What we don't understand is why can't we put stockers out now, instead of waiting til October when we have plenty of forage to ration from now til spring growth. So - we have heard MikeC's suggestion about running someone else's cattle before - how do we find them? Thank you for all your responses, good, bad or otherwise - it is all good information. We've been waiting a long time to get to Tennessee to do this, then this dropped into our laps. It would be really nice to KNOW we can do it before we take such a gigantic step. - Pauline

 

[MikeC]

Feed stores, vet supply stores, sale barns, and the like.

Talk to everyone there. Ask for names of people who run stockers.

The auctioneer can usually give you some names. Vets might help.

Pull in at some ranches. Tell them what you'd like to do. All they can do is tell you no................................

 

[vs_cattle]

lots of people need good pasture right now
where are you located?

 

[novatech]

From the expenses mentioned you are already in a loseing situation Unless it is free rent. Even then it may be marginal. Basicly it is dependent on the forage quality and stocking rate that the land will feed out. For 1 yr. I do not see any pasture improvement expense being justified.

 

[Little Cow]

For one year, forget cattle, finish your fencing and rent it out to some rich horse people! They'd pay a fortune for even unimproved pasture. Get a liability release though....

 

[3MR]

It continues to amaze me that people keep suggesting they rent it out to someone.

 

[novatech]

It continues to amaze me that people keep suggesting they rent it out to someone.

It is just another openion.
The original question involved makeing a profit. It seems to me that this may garantee a profit where cattle are a large risk at best with only a 1 year lease.
If he puts a pencil to it, the risk may be justifiable.
So far the best seggestion is to charge someone for lbs. of gain, no risk involved, and the only investment is not much more than what he has already spent. If the market falls it is someone elses problem.
The problem with leasing or getting someone to put cattle on by the lb. is finding them. That takes time it may not be feasable just for that reason alone.

 

[backhoeboogie]

It continues to amaze me that people keep suggesting they rent it out to someone.

With the price of cattle right now, it doesn't appear to meet the old "buy low sell high" addage. Plus you only have one year of calf crop. You are going to need certainty on genetics and that can be expensive.

They only have a year for sure. That is the biggest hitch I see. It is hard to get significant pasture improvement in year's time. That area is currently facing a drought is it not?

My thoughts are indeed rent it out to an established operation or else bale what forage is there and sell it. Those are sure profits. Everything else is rolling the dice and betting against bad odds in drought conditions.

 

[novatech]

It continues to amaze me that people keep suggesting they rent it out to someone.

With the price of cattle right now, it doesn't appear to meet the old "buy low sell high" addage. Plus you only have one year of calf crop. You are going to need certainty on genetics and that can be expensive.

They only have a year for sure. That is the biggest hitch I see. It is hard to get significant pasture improvement in year's time. That area is currently facing a drought is it not?

My thoughts are indeed rent it out to an established operation or else bale what forage is there and sell it. Those are sure profits. Everything else is rolling the dice and betting against bad odds in drought conditions.

I didn't think about the hay. Sound like best yet, especially if there is drought in the area.

My dad put 150 steers and heifers on 150 A. of the most lush clover I have ever seen (Many moons ago). Everything seemed to go perfect. That is until he received the check from the sale barn. He was lucky to have come close to breaking even.

 

[3MR]

It continues to amaze me that people keep suggesting they rent it out to someone.

It is just another openion.
The original question involved makeing a profit. It seems to me that this may garantee a profit where cattle are a large risk at best with only a 1 year lease.
If he puts a pencil to it, the risk may be justifiable.
So far the best seggestion is to charge someone for lbs. of gain, no risk involved, and the only investment is not much more than what he has already spent. If the market falls it is someone elses problem.
The problem with leasing or getting someone to put cattle on by the lb. is finding them. That takes time it may not be feasable just for that reason alone.

It would be an option if he owned it, but since he has stated he was leasing it I dont see how its an option.

 

[3MR]

It continues to amaze me that people keep suggesting they rent it out to someone.

With the price of cattle right now, it doesn't appear to meet the old "buy low sell high" addage. Plus you only have one year of calf crop. You are going to need certainty on genetics and that can be expensive.

They only have a year for sure. That is the biggest hitch I see. It is hard to get significant pasture improvement in year's time. That area is currently facing a drought is it not?

My thoughts are indeed rent it out to an established operation or else bale what forage is there and sell it. Those are sure profits. Everything else is rolling the dice and betting against bad odds in drought conditions.

I didn't think about the hay. Sound like best yet, especially if there is drought in the area.

My dad put 150 steers and heifers on 150 A. of the most lush clover I have ever seen (Many moons ago). Everything seemed to go perfect. That is until he received the check from the sale barn. He was lucky to have come close to breaking even.

Im guessing if the pasture hasnt been taken care of in over two years the cost of growing hay of any quality would be prohibitive. I dont see much use in repairing a hay field that you may not have next year.

Just my 2 cents. They need to look at all the avenues and their ups and downs. Hay should be considered. If the pasture is in good shape nutrient wise it might be a good idea.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Im guessing if the pasture hasnt been taken care of in over two years the cost of growing hay of any quality would be prohibitive. I dont see much use in repairing a hay field that you may not have next year.

Just my 2 cents. They need to look at all the avenues and their ups and downs. Hay should be considered. If the pasture is in good shape nutrient wise it might be a good idea.

Two things come to mind. Number 1 is that the drought of '05 was so bad here six year old round bales out of the field were fetching $65 a roll. Number 2 is liquid fertilizer (mild for the heat) has more instant results for a hay crop.

This is simply a suggestion. I have no idea what the market is out there. Personally I wouldn't go jumping into cattle if I was looking for sure profit in one year's time.

 

[backhoeboogie]

I didn't think about the hay.

That is the only thing keeping me in the black for a while now. I could be grazing another 200 head if I had them.

 

[novatech]

I didn't think about the hay.

That is the only thing keeping me in the black for a while now. I could be grazing another 200 head if I had them.

The drought has tought many of us a lesson. Nodody is inlarging their herd.
Around here you would think that hay would be getting cheap, with all the rain, but it is the same as last summer, $60 plus per bale and they don,t ask about the quality. This year we can,t get in to bale it.

 

[Bez>]

Hello - I am in California. We were hoping to do this in Tennessee but we have been handed an opportunity to get some cattle running on 104 acres right here in California. Our house is for sale, but the real estate market here is just tanked. The property is 104 acres, has not been worked or attended to in any way for at least two years. There is a substantial amount of dry feed. We only have a 1 year lease on the property. It could end up going longer, but we can only count on 1 year. Therefore we know we do not want to go with a cow/calf operation. We are leaning toward a small beef cattle, stocker operation. We have heard that we should not buy cattle until October or November to get them acclamated, that ground worked a bit, and cattle settled into a routine for when grasses come. We really need to turn a profit. We have limited capital to invest in cattle. We have been working cattle with friends for two years - we have learned a ton, but admit there is a ton left to learn as well! We are working on perimeter fence repair, with a single wire stand off electric to follow. Then temporary fencing to do some controlled (intense) grazing. Because of the cost of 500 - 600 pound calves, we have though about getting a bunch of drop calves to feed up til grass comes, which should be about weaning age. Problem being, most drop calves available are dairy cattle that do not gain as quickly as beef cattle - correct? How can we get enough cattle on this property as soon as possible, and still expect to turn some sort of profit come May 2008? Does anyone have any other suggestions on how to do this? We are open to any and all suggestions at this point. Thank you so much! - Pauline

I hate to burst your bubble - but you have a one year lease.

You have limited funds.

You have limited knowledge.

You REALLY need these animals to turn a profit.

I see a disaster in the making.

People do not realize that by stretching and taking risk at the top end they run the chance of blowing everything.

You guys stop working right now and plan on - at best 100 bucks a head profit. At best.

You are already eating that profit up with your work and your time and you have not even found an animal for it.

If you can buy and feed and doctor and market 20 animals on this ground and in the first year - pay all costs including fence and lease and then make 2000 clear profit my hat will be off to you.

Mind you if it all goes well and you improve the ground, the owner can and likely will take the ground back - with a smile and a thank you.

Better hope nothing dies or gets sick or the price tanks - or feed gets scarce - fire loves pasture. Ask some of the folks on this board.

You are now in a loss situation.

There is no money to be made here by spending money on cows.

In fact I believe you have spent more already than you will make in the next year once you factor in all the expenses.

Cattle are a long term business - not a get in and get out quick scheme.

You might make a few pennies on running some cows - but I would bet you are not going to run anywhere near enough over the year to pull in much - and your time, fuel, up keep, meds, deads, insurance, fences and such will just eat it up on you.

Besides - do you REALLY want to rodeo someone elses wild animals as they crash through your fences? Not me thank you.

Let it out to someone and let them graze the cows - they do ALL the work - charge them and walk away. No work and no nothing - pure profit if you work it right.

Just advertise it in the local ag paper or at the county extension office and do nothing more - someone will find you.

If you can LAY OUT NO MONEY - and sub-let the ground - you are dollars ahead. By far. However I suspect you have already eaten that profit up with the money spent to date.

Otherwise I would walk - time on lease is too short and ground is too small and work will eat up the money. I think you folks may be nice people - but I would bet a pencil on paper would show the risk outweighs the opportunity.

I tell you what - I will lease you 150 acres of land for one year if you will come up and fix the fence and fix the land and fix the feed situation - at the end of one year I am taking it back.

I will thank you for your time and effort. Heck, I might even have you over for dinner.

Better re-think this one folks - better yet - Pauline - do not walk from this plan - run from it.

Find someone to rent it from you and stand back and take the cash.

Any business that makes more than 5% triple net is doing real, real well. This is not going to hit 1% and in fact I predict a loss.

Sigh - you won't take this advice.

I will wish you the best and I hope you write back and tell us you made a frigging fortune.

I been around this business too long to believe it will happen.

Regards

Bez>

 

[backhoeboogie]

I will wish you the best and I hope you write back and tell us you made a frigging fortune.

I been around this business too long to believe it will happen.

Regards

Bez>

Bez, That post was right up there in the top ten ever for this forum. It sure sounded like it came from the heart.