Young bull

[georgiabob]

"He will sire hard doing offspring that get discounted and you will develop a reputation as selling poor cattle. The buyers remember."

Yeah... I'm pretty sure that for all the years I sold cattle through the local salebarns, the buyers had no idea who I was, which calves were mine, nor knew or remembered where those good quality calves came from. YMMV. Hell, most of the time, you couldn't even get the ringman to announce that they were fully-vaccinated, weaned, and bunk-broke.

That's my take on that, other than when I was able to sell directly to a local order buyer - who knew what we had, how they were cared for - and knew, after buying them for a couple years... that our calves never got sick. Sure hated when that whole Eastern Livestock debacle put her out of business.

Homestly, if i send one to a sale barn it's because i don't want to sell it to anyone that buys from me anyway. That's my last ditch move for selling a calf

 

[MurraysMutts]

I see a lot of that type animal sell down south. Fort Smith sells a bunch. Evidently there is a market for em!

I used this bull for one season. He was a beg, borrow or steal type thing. Friend loaned him to me. He had potential. But was tall and slender. He's actually my bottle calfs (Seven) sire. Only animal I kept out of him. His heifers looked good, but would not produce. Would ALWAYS breed very late. Late maturing I guess is the term. Anyway, I'm rambling. His calves sold ok. Beat the hell outta no calf at all for sure!

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Maybe I misunderstood. Have you already used this bull and now you are finished with him? If you were breeding for Oct/Nov - you are finished breeding.

 

[gcreekrch]

Point taken.
Timing is everything.

So is pride of ownership, I have bought hundreds of discount value cows but never scrimped on bull quality. Ever………

 

[alacowman1]

Who knows, he may throw nice calves. His papers are impressive.

I've seen that happen too...but I go with the old saying what you see,is what you get..but you could have the power on the cow side.. too ease the pain a little to

 

[gcreekrch]

I've seen that happen too...but I go with the old saying what you see,is what you get..but you could have the power on the cow side.. too ease the pain a little to

I wonder though…….

 

[georgiabob]

I've seen that happen too...but I go with the old saying what you see,is what you get..but you could have the power on the cow side.. too ease the pain a little to

Yeah, i don't have high hopes

 

[georgiabob]

Maybe I misunderstood. Have you already used this bull and now you are finished with him? If you were breeding for Oct/Nov - you are finished breeding.

I've got one heifer i want to breed to him and one cow that is out of synch. But if i don't catch the cow i won't be heartbroken.

 

[georgiabob]

So is pride of ownership, I have bought hundreds of discount value cows but never scrimped on bull quality. Ever………

So you think breeding a high quality bull to a poor quality cow is somehow going to produce better calves than the opposite? Genetics being 50-50 i don't see a difference. You're still breeding down from the better quality of the two.

 

[georgiabob]

I think i misunderstood your previous post. I thought you liked him

I've seen that happen too...but I go with the old saying what you see,is what you get..but you could have the power on the cow side.. too ease the pain a little

 

[simme]

So you think breeding a high quality bull to a poor quality cow is somehow going to produce better calves than the opposite? Genetics being 50-50 i don't see a difference. You're still breeding down from the better quality of the two.

I think it is the economics. Since a bull may breed 30 to 50 cows, spend a little more on one bull and get the benefit on 50 calves. If extra money is spent on cows, got to do that on 50 cows to get the same benefit on those 50 calves. In three years, you get 150 calves from that bull. An extra $3000 on a bull is $20 per calf. Get 12-15 pounds more weaning weight on each calf and that extra $3000 is paid for. Thats the general idea but plug in numbers that fit the situation - years you keep a bull, number of cows per bull, selling price of calves. But I think you always get more return on money spent on the bull than spending more on cows.

 

[MurraysMutts]

Who knows, he may throw nice calves. His papers are impressive.

Is he beefmaster?

 

[gcreekrch]

Is he beefmaster?

No, he is a POS.

 

[gcreekrch]

So you think breeding a high quality bull to a poor quality cow is somehow going to produce better calves than the opposite? Genetics being 50-50 i don't see a difference. You're still breeding down from the better quality of the two.

I said discount value, I didn't say junk. I make money on junk feeder cattle by improving them and selling for good profit. Kenny knows exactly what I am talking about there.

 

[Son of Butch]

So you think breeding a high quality bull to a poor quality cow is somehow going to produce better calves than the opposite?
Genetics being 50-50 i don't see a difference.

It's called playing the hand you're dealt.
Using the highest quality bull you can Afford is more sensible than replacing the whole herd. Path of least resistance, common sense and affordability, not necessarily in that order.

Using a good bull on lower quality cows has a bigger impact on calf quality than on high quality cows. That's the downside of high quality cows, you always have to use a bull of equal or higher quality just to maintain the quality you're at.

 

[georgiabob]

It's called playing the hand you're dealt.
Using the highest quality bull you can Afford is more sensible than replacing the whole herd. Path of least resistance, common sense and affordability, not necessarily in that order.

Using a good bull on lower quality cows has a bigger impact on calf quality than on high quality cows. That's the downside of high quality cows, you always have to use a bull of equal or higher quality just to maintain the quality you're at.

I get it but i don't plan on retaining anything unless a heifer really surprises me so for a one season bull i don't think it makes a difference.

 

[georgiabob]

It's called playing the hand you're dealt.
Using the highest quality bull you can Afford is more sensible than replacing the whole herd. Path of least resistance, common sense and affordability, not necessarily in that order.

Using a good bull on lower quality cows has a bigger impact on calf quality than on high quality cows. That's the downside of high quality cows, you always have to use a bull of equal or higher quality just to maintain the quality you're at.

I've probably cleared more by buying skinny unchecked cows and putting them in condition than any other thing i've played around with. But i've bought a good cows since i've been adding pasture and this year i just needed them producing something instead of eating and waiting to get set up to start ai. I don't make a living off of cows but in a few years i'd like to be positioned to if i want.

 

[alacowman1]

I've probably cleared more by buying skinny unchecked cows and putting them in condition than any other thing i've played around with. But i've bought a good cows since i've been adding pasture and this year i just needed them producing something instead of eating and waiting to get set up to start ai. I don't make a living off of cows but in a few years i'd like to be positioned to if i want.

If you retain heifers each year ,over a period of years.. your Bulls selection will influence 90# of your herd

 

[Son of Butch]

I've probably cleared more by buying skinny unchecked cows and putting them in condition than any other thing i've played around with.
this year i just needed them producing something instead of eating and waiting to get set up to start ai. I don't make a living off of cows

there you go

 

[georgiabob]

If you retain heifers each year ,over a period of years.. your Bulls selection will influence 90# of your herd

I get it but this is a one and done bull and unless he produces a spectacular heifer none of his calves are staying. In this situation there's no real difference.