Extensive winter feeding

[farmerjan]

I've got an 84 (I think) little ford ranger pu 4x4. Goes good and even when I had the top half of the engine redone, have less than 1500 in it and it just keeps going along. Heater works good...radio gone before I bought it for 400, great for getting around with the 4wd.... My son said that he was thinking about a little polaris or gator or something... and I said why???? I like my truck and it is alot warmer in it than out in the little s x s..... He had a 4 wheeler and I just can't see the expense of the other.

 

[RDFF]

I've got an 84 (I think) little ford ranger pu 4x4. Goes good and even when I had the top half of the engine redone, have less than 1500 in it and it just keeps going along. Heater works good...radio gone before I bought it for 400, great for getting around with the 4wd.... My son said that he was thinking about a little polaris or gator or something... and I said why???? I like my truck and it is alot warmer in it than out in the little s x s..... He had a 4 wheeler and I just can't see the expense of the other.

Yup, great choice. I was looking pretty hard at those too, because of their lightweight comparatively. Still quite a bit heavier than a SxS though, and that's important when "tracking" across the pasture. When fencing last summer, I had to make quite a few trips up and down the fenceline... where I made like 3 or 4 with the PU (granted a heavy dually), the grass was pretty much toast. Twice as many with the 4 wheeler, could hardly see any impact on it. Didn't squash the cells of the plants. And then too, when it gets a little wet, light is really important. So that's why I wanted to stay just as light as I possibly could. Figured anything in the same weight range as a Polaris Ranger was about as good as you'd get.

Tires will last alot longer on this too.... can only get about 2500 miles on the 4 wheeler set. Put that on it in one year. Already have 1000 miles on the Tracker, and I've only had it since Oct. (sees a little more "road miles" than the 4 wheeler though, because it CAN!).

 

[gcreekrch]

Like to feed every day, Hay gets spread evenly, all cows get a chance at the good hay and weaker cows don't get pushed off to the poorer bales. Can see any problems that arise and address them as needed. Also reduces "waste" from 30% to 10%.
We are cheap operators and would rather feed went through a cow before going back to the ground.
Cows do ok on this.......

 

[Silver]

We feed daily also, for mostly the same reasons Gcreek does. We feed a lot of frozen baleage, and are finding it feeds pretty well with this gadget:

 

[Rydero]

Like to feed every day, Hay gets spread evenly, all cows get a chance at the good hay and weaker cows don't get pushed off to the poorer bales. Can see any problems that arise and address them as needed. Also reduces "waste" from 30% to 10%.
We are cheap operators and would rather feed went through a cow before going back to the ground.
Cows do ok on this.......

Of course feed however you prefer - to each their own but I address what you point out my own ways so I don't see how I'd personally justify the extra yardage and more importantly time.

When feeding multiple qualities of hay I either roll out even amounts of two qualities for 2 days so all the cows have access to the top quality feed on day one. When snow makes unrolling impractical I feed all good bales or all lesser bales for each 2 day block instead of mixing.

I go to the cattle every day in a vehicle to check the waterer and monitor/address problems then.


That 30% waste figure gets thrown around a lot but I don't see it. It doesn't compute based on the rate of consumption or what my ration software says they need either. I use 15% for my figuring which has a safety margin built in - it's somewhere between 10 - 15%. Regardless - if the above is 30% waste I don't want to get to 10% there isn't much nutrition in those stems anyway - it does more good building soil than in their bellies

My herd's conception rate (less than 2% open) and weaning rate (96 %) last year indicate they're doing quite well too.

 

[Silver]

There is more than one way to skin a cat, for sure.

 

[Nesikep]

When it's cold and clean out, I'm around 0% waste, as soon as it gets muddy that number goes up a lot... If they aren't hungry enough to clean it up (when it's good conditions), they get fed less that day.. Once they're milking they get fed better, same with bitter cold weather, etc... most gain weight and fat during the winter.

Despite their complaints, they're still out grazing

 

[anewcomer]

Ryder's, I like the looks of your reproductive numbers. Would you share your breeding season, feeding regime, cows per bull, calving dates and weaning date?

 

[Rydero]

Ryder's, I like the looks of your reproductive numbers. Would you share your breeding season, feeding regime, cows per bull, calving dates and weaning date?

Calving start date is March 15th. First calf came on March 12th, last calf out of a cow we hadn't purchased was May 7th. All the pairs are run together (89 summer before last) with 3 bulls - 1x3yr old & 2x2yr olds. 14 paddocks I believe. When bulls are introduced the pairs have generally been on grass for a couple weeks. I believe increasing body condition at breeding is very important.

Weaning has traditionally been mid November, last year (due to drought) Labour day, this year we weaned the majority mid October and the rest beginning of November. Come to think of it weaning is a moving target, lol. It has more to do with cow body condition and extending the grazing season than maximizing the value of the calves.

After the calves are weaned cows are put on whatever extended grazing we have then wintered on strictly hay - alfalfa grass and wild as I've described until two weeks before calving. Once home for calving hay is free choice until pasture.

No cow that comes open is kept.

 

[gcreekrch]

Of course feed however you prefer - to each their own but I address what you point out my own ways so I don't see how I'd personally justify the extra yardage and more importantly time.

When feeding multiple qualities of hay I either roll out even amounts of two qualities for 2 days so all the cows have access to the top quality feed on day one. When snow makes unrolling impractical I feed all good bales or all lesser bales for each 2 day block instead of mixing.

I go to the cattle every day in a vehicle to check the waterer and monitor/address problems then.

View attachment 1426
That 30% waste figure gets thrown around a lot but I don't see it. It doesn't compute based on the rate of consumption or what my ration software says they need either. I use 15% for my figuring which has a safety margin built in - it's somewhere between 10 - 15%. Regardless - if the above is 30% waste I don't want to get to 10% there isn't much nutrition in those stems anyway - it does more good building soil than in their bellies

My herd's conception rate (less than 2% open) and weaning rate (96 %) last year indicate they're doing quite well too.

Well done on conception and weaning! Considering our range and predator issues we are happy to achieve an 8% open rate and late rate and keep our calving interval at 45 days for cows and 30 days on heifers. Weaning rates are calculated from preg test to weaning so if we get in that 85%+ rate we are doing quite well compared to most. This is with a herd that is roughly 8 times larger than yours.
I have discussed bale grazing and such with other deciles of RFP and many of them went back to daily feeding, finding the fuel and time was nearly the same and they could see their cattle every day. It justifies itself if the operator has a 9 to 5 job.
We can consistantly pull a $300 to $400 profit out of these old girls and not sure how many others can say that.

 

[Rydero]

Well done on conception and weaning! Considering our range and predator issues we are happy to achieve an 8% open rate and late rate and keep our calving interval at 45 days for cows and 30 days on heifers. Weaning rates are calculated from preg test to weaning so if we get in that 85%+ rate we are doing quite well compared to most. This is with a herd that is roughly 8 times larger than yours.
I have discussed bale grazing and such with other deciles of RFP and many of them went back to daily feeding, finding the fuel and time was nearly the same and they could see their cattle every day. It justifies itself if the operator has a 9 to 5 job.
We can consistantly pull a $300 to $400 profit out of these old girls and not sure how many others can say that.

Ahh predators, I feel for anyone dealing with them extensively it has to be so frustrating. Regardless your open rate is impressive in such a tight window most operations that pull bulls around here tend to go with 60 days. The drought has taken its toll though some herds ran a 20% open rate last year (I think rotational grazing showed it's superiority in drought conditions) - haven't heard much about this year.

Dealing with numbers like yours daily feeding is more realistic - I have a hard enough time getting someone to stand outside and cut strings for 1.5 hrs a week - if I floated the idea of 12 hrs in one shot I know what I'd be told. If I had 7x the cattle I'd likely feed essentially the same way 7 days a week or 3 hrs every 2nd day. My "day job" is with an operation in your ballpark and we do the whole chopped silage TMR deal - 3 hrs a day 7 days a week, it's manageable and also efficient. My system compares pretty favorably cost wise but coming up with significantly more hay would likely be difficult. Are you able to do it with hay? Your profit window is right where I strive to be as well Constant expansion of the herd and land base puts that a little out of reach sometimes but it's certainly an attainable number.

 

[gcreekrch]

Ahh predators, I feel for anyone dealing with them extensively it has to be so frustrating. Regardless your open rate is impressive in such a tight window most operations that pull bulls around here tend to go with 60 days. The drought has taken its toll though some herds ran a 20% open rate last year (I think rotational grazing showed it's superiority in drought conditions) - haven't heard much about this year.

Dealing with numbers like yours daily feeding is more realistic - I have a hard enough time getting someone to stand outside and cut strings for 1.5 hrs a week - if I floated the idea of 12 hrs in one shot I know what I'd be told. If I had 7x the cattle I'd likely feed essentially the same way 7 days a week or 3 hrs every 2nd day. My "day job" is with an operation in your ballpark and we do the whole chopped silage TMR deal - 3 hrs a day 7 days a week, it's manageable and also efficient. My system compares pretty favorably cost wise but coming up with significantly more hay would likely be difficult. Are you able to do it with hay? Your profit window is right where I strive to be as well Constant expansion of the herd and land base puts that a little out of reach sometimes but it's certainly an attainable number.

I didn't add that our mature cows run on 25000 acres of timber and swamp. Yearling heifers and first calving cows are pasture bred albeit the first calves are in a 2000 acre block of similar terrain as the older cows.

We tried using poly twine for a couple years back when there were only 300 cows here. Spending two hours a day beating ice of bales so twine wasn't everywhere on the ranch made the decision to go back to sisal very easy.

We do supplement until calving starts with 5 lbs of pea and lentil screenings pellets. Reduces hay intake by 8 lbs and we save our best hay for calving. Cows are in great shape by then and can afford to coast a bit until grass. We don't calve until April so it is not near the same as trying to keep weight on winter calving cows and expect them to milk.
We also use tubs some.... when cows are still rustling in early winter and again for first calf heifers during and after calving. Health in the heifers calves has improved when they have something other than dirt to lick and breed back in heifers has gone up a few notches.

 

[Rydero]

I didn't add that our mature cows run on 25000 acres of timber and swamp. Yearling heifers and first calving cows are pasture bred albeit the first calves are in a 2000 acre block of similar terrain as the older cows.

We tried using poly twine for a couple years back when there were only 300 cows here. Spending two hours a day beating ice of bales so twine wasn't everywhere on the ranch made the decision to go back to sisal very easy.

We do supplement until calving starts with 5 lbs of pea and lentil screenings pellets. Reduces hay intake by 8 lbs and we save our best hay for calving. Cows are in great shape by then and can afford to coast a bit until grass. We don't calve until April so it is not near the same as trying to keep weight on winter calving cows and expect them to milk.
We also use tubs some.... when cows are still rustling in early winter and again for first calf heifers during and after calving. Health in the heifers calves has improved when they have something other than dirt to lick and breed back in heifers has gone up a few notches.

That's a totally different world. With that much real estate in rough terrain you must have immense pastures. I have a few pastures that are a entire quarter section but that's as big as I go and I prefer to break it down far more than that. My bulls have a much easier time covering the cows in those conditions. Mine would probably get lost and never been seen again at your place and yours would get bored and leave mine after quickly covering the herd, lol.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Amazing how we all live in such different worlds - and most of us on the same continent!!!!

 

[Stocker Steve]

Considering our range and predator issues we are happy to achieve an 8% open rate and late rate and keep our calving interval at 45 days for cows and 30 days on heifers. Weaning rates are calculated from preg test to weaning so if we get in that 85%+ rate we are doing quite well compared to most.

How did you settle on these calving intervals?

 

[Silver]

I've been considering going to 45 days myself. Seems like after 45 days we are about done anyway, that last 5% probably aren't doing me any favours. But the thought of it makes me nervous lol

 

[gcreekrch]

That's a totally different world. With that much real estate in rough terrain you must have immense pastures. I have a few pastures that are a entire quarter section but that's as big as I go and I prefer to break it down far more than that. My bulls have a much easier time covering the cows in those conditions. Mine would probably get lost and never been seen again at your place and yours would get bored and leave mine after quickly covering the herd, lol.

Our range is not fenced on the east and north sides. They can go 60 miles east and 100 miles north east before running into the next fence.

 

[gcreekrch]

I've been considering going to 45 days myself. Seems like after 45 days we are about done anyway, that last 5% probably aren't doing me any favours. But the thought of it makes me nervous lol

Cut your yearling heifers back to 30 days first. Keep a few more home as calves and let them decide who wants to stay. We are pretty much 80 to 85% done with everything in 30 days the last several years..

 

[gcreekrch]

How did you settle on these calving intervals?

It's called uniformity. Our steers sell in three groups, some big, lots middle and some small.

 

[Silver]

Cut your yearling heifers back to 30 days first. Keep a few more home as calves and let them decide who wants to stay. We are pretty much 80 to 85% done with everything in 30 days the last several years..

Pretty much the same here but the thought of knocking off the last 15 days makes me nervous regardless.