My Yearly Cattle costs are 55 cents/day/cow in Texas, What am I doing wrong?

[greybeard]

Money saved, is money made. Money that can be (should be) invested to get a ROI.
I always hear all this stuff about including taxes (assessed property tax/ac of pasture) in figuring your cost. Even the minimum AU saves me (ballpark guessing) about $5,000/year in property taxes due to the ag exemption.
That's $5000 money made/saved in my pocket FROM my cattle. The minimum AU required on my property is 10au.
$5000 ÷ 10au =$500/au per year, that my cows made. Subtract $500 from my cost per cow per year and I come out with a lot more realistic cost per au.
Now, how much is your realistic cattle cost?

 

[Caustic Burno]

Stop paying rent and see how long you get to stay.

Ownership of real estate is the fundamental building block of wealth creation in a free society.

Money saved, is money made. Money that can be (should be) invested to get a ROI.
I always hear all this stuff about including taxes (assessed property tax/ac of pasture) in figuring your cost. Even the minimum AU saves me (ballpark guessing) about $5,000/year in property taxes due to the ag exemption.
That's $5000 money made/saved in my pocket FROM my cattle. The minimum AU required on my property is 10au.
$5000 ÷ 10au =$500/au per year, that my cows made. Subtract $500 from my cost per cow per year and I come out with a lot more realistic cost per au.
Now, how much is your realistic cattle cost?

You can get the same tax break in pine plantation.
That pine tree doesn't require hay either.

 

[EasTex]

I have a timber exemption, but have a few cows for hobby.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

You can get the same tax break in pine plantation.
That pine tree doesn't require hay either.

So you charge the taxes to the trees?

 

[Caustic Burno]

I have a timber exemption, but have a few cows for hobby.

I had the NRCS draw up management plan for long leaf pine. Inputs and age are making them look attractive.
I am not there yet but the day is coming.
I have timber as well.

 

[Caustic Burno]

So you charge the taxes to the trees?

Yep if it's a tree farm.
More tree farms than cattle here. The county I live in is 94% pine plantation.

 

[Lucky]

I had the NRCS draw up management plan for long leaf pine. Inputs and age are making them look attractive.
I am not there yet but the day is coming.
I have timber as well.

You rely too much on government agencies CB. They'll stear you wrong everytime. Bunch of college educated idiots that probably never ran a cow herd much less a business.

 

[Caustic Burno]

You rely too much on government agencies CB. They'll stear you wrong everytime. Bunch of college educated idiots that probably never ran a cow herd much less a business.

I guess I'm in the same class then.

 

[Lucky]

I guess I'm in the same class then.

Lol. It's all good. Great discussion on the cost of running a ranch.......even though the OP was only asking about the cost of feeding a cow. It was fun.

 

[Brute 23]

@TexasRancher

I'm far from an expert and I'm constantly hunting a more efficient method also. I'll throw some ideas out but you will have to investigate if they will work for your operation. Physical limitations, equipment limitations, area availability, etc may make one thing good for me but not for you.

On your cubes you might see if you get more bang for the buck with a cottonseed cube? From the prices you said I'm guessing that's a 20% cube. You may can get a 40% cs cube for $15 and get more bang for your buck.

Is corn hay corn stalks? If so that might be another area to consider maybe spending a little more for a better quality product and get more bang for the buck. You may be able to cut the amount you feed or cut back on another supplement like the cubes.

3 bales for 7 head per week sounds like a lot. Be sure they are cleaning it up before they get more. It may not hurt to make them hustle up some forage, if it's available, in between bales.

You might also look in to another product to feed for protein other than cubes. In our area we can get whole cotton seed. It is much cheaper than cubes out of a sack and a much better bang for the buck.

Lastly I do believe in investing in your grass. No matter if it's through fert, herb, or just cutting back on your numbers. All three of those have helped us cut or winter feeding costs.

 

[wbvs58]

I agree with CB if your gonna do the numbers everything should be included, the generator might only use 2 gallons a year but it should have an oil change every year as well as being depreciated, fuel and maintenance, depreciation on the tractor/ truck to put the hay out.
I find nothing wrong with how Texas is enjoying his cattle, he is a low input operation. How old are those calves when you sell them at that weight? It sounds a bit on the light side to me and suggests that maybe you could spend a bit more money on some fertilizer in summer.
I class myself unashammably as a hobby farmer, I don't keep any financial records nor do a tax return. I don't claim back the 10% goods and services tax from the government so I pay my way keeping my government in the manner to which they are accustommed. I judge how I am going by the balance in my bank account and how often I have to add to it to top it up from my limited resources but then I'm not going to live forever and at the moment with our cattle prices and good season I think it might have added another 5 years to how long I can live for. I love what I do, certainly the best years of my life.
When I retired I just did not want to keep financial records anymore, my goal was to disappear off the planet as far as the tax office was concerned and I think I have achieved that. I know if I did have to do a tax return they would owe me a lot more than I owed them but I am happy it keeps them at bay.

Ken

 

[Caustic Burno]

I agree with CB if your gonna do the numbers everything should be included, the generator might only use 2 gallons a year but it should have an oil change every year as well as being depreciated, fuel and maintenance, depreciation on the tractor/ truck to put the hay out.
I find nothing wrong with how Texas is enjoying his cattle, he is a low input operation. How old are those calves when you sell them at that weight? It sounds a bit on the light side to me and suggests that maybe you could spend a bit more money on some fertilizer in summer.
I class myself unashammably as a hobby farmer, I don't keep any financial records nor do a tax return. I don't claim back the 10% goods and services tax from the government so I pay my way keeping my government in the manner to which they are accustommed. I judge how I am going by the balance in my bank account and how often I have to add to it to top it up from my limited resources but then I'm not going to live forever and at the moment with our cattle prices and good season I think it might have added another 5 years to how long I can live for. I love what I do, certainly the best years of my life.
When I retired I just did not want to keep financial records anymore, my goal was to disappear off the planet as far as the tax office was concerned and I think I have achieved that. I know if I did have to do a tax return they would owe me a lot more than I owed them but I am happy it keeps them at bay.

Ken

Now that makes perfect sense!
You're not BSing yourself or anyone else.
Nothing wrong with it either. To me it's no different than going bass fishing. Talk about a waste of money that I enjoy.

 

[TexasRancher]

you need to feed your cattle every day , It really pays off, if you can not afford to feed animals you don't need to have them. I am sur you enjoy eating every day.

I do have 6" to 12" of dry winter forage (hay basically) on 13 acres they are not even touching, because they prefer the corn bails. I might be a little light on the cubes (when it does get cold (below 20 deg with wind) i might give them a full bag of cubes, that's about 4lb each, with Mr. Bull eating his 7lbs ouch!!) , but it takes them 2 days to eat-up the corn bail.

 

[TexasRancher]

Are you expecting these cattle to pay property taxes and farm/ranch overhead for you? If so you might consider prorating those costs into the upkeep as well. I think you're doing the right thing crunching the numbers though.

Have you considered unrolling hay? It might be harder to unroll effectively without another piece of equipment for as many as you're running but unrolling has done wonders for me

ahahah, property taxes on this are a whopping $185./year. The truth is...(I don't need to make a profit) I don't roll in all the overhead costs (but i like to keep those receipts for my Schedule F)...I only track real cattle costs on what goes into the cows mouth, on their skin and under their skin. Barb-wire and gates are long-term improvement land items used for years.
If I wanted too I could unroll the hay by hand (pushing it, i'm THAT strong)...and have done so before many times...but I've found they boop on it less if it's stacked up-contained. Afterwards, I can kick down and spread a small leftover pile, into a wide thin mulching layer in 5 minutes...great leg workout!! No gym membership needed. Having fun unloading...executing the bail drop with my 1989 GMC Sierra...$1,000. truck...i just keep putting in those common used 350 motors and rebuild my two extra 700-R4 Transmissions when needed. My money is in the bank not on the land. However, I'm double road corner side land 18 minutes from Dallas....i don't know how much longer i can FEND-OFF the hostile buyers. Money is a hot potato right now....useless to me, dangerous. That's why everyone, even Bill Gates, is trying to unload their money to buy your land.

 

[TexasRancher]

If your not charging the taxes against the cattle for the land they use they are welfare cattle.
Your supplementing someone's supper table out of your pocket.
If every penny spent on those cattle is not changed to them they are welfare cattle.
Its that simple your using your income to supplement someone else's income.

Yes!...If i do not make a clear profit (including my time, which I'm definitely not)...then I AM supplementing someone else's supper table and income. Isn't THAT Wonderful...to give back to people. I like it, hey Mikey.
In FACT Stay Tuned....I'm trying to be an urban farmer...proposals in hand...to be connected to NRCS and RCPP....whereby, my processed cattle meat will be stamped USDA and NRCS and be given away free to church lunch-dinning halls for the disadvantaged to have a tender porterhouse, ribeye. I'm going government...non-profit...hand-outs. That's my aim and direction....Divine inspiration. I want to be an NRCS shared partner, Lead Partner. I just need NCRS's buy-in to help me process the meat for distribution.
Believe it or not...NRCS and RCPP are so focused on pure conservation programs...and some fluff programs like saving the forest turtles and birds, soil research....they do not understand a program (like mine) to benefit those less fortunate. I will get them on-board soon.

 

[Lucky]

My money is in the bank not on the land. However, I'm double road corner side land 18 minutes from Dallas....i don't know how much longer i can FEND-OFF the hostile buyers. Money is a hot potato right now....useless to me, dangerous. That's why everyone, even Bill Gates, is trying to unload their money to buy your land.

You wouldn't believe the number of people in your shoes selling 40 acres and buying 150 in this county. They have the same attitude as you about the money and are sick of the rat race and growth.

 

[TexasRancher]

No it's not a hang up . Business is business the rest is just pasture protein otherwise known as bull shyt. If the cattle don't pay the taxes and all there upkeep it's just a hobby.
That's okay if you're okay with supplementing someone else income.
I am just not BSing myself on what cattle costs are.
Truth hurts and you act like you just got hit in the face with a wet possum full of it.

I love you Caustic Burno...in 2008 when i first came aboard...you helped me a lot with my early fencing ideas. I know exactly where you are coming from...do not take a break from this board....we need the debating diversity. It's great. It's the foundation of learning what other's are doing.
My business is not a hobby, might be headed toward non-profit....i love tax exemptions and making improvements on the land. Sole proprietor. I Love cattle, they're innocent in all this chatter. We're here on this forum for them. Sometimes i wake up at 3am and think about my cattle and their needs...it's nice, being responsible for the iconic majestic bulls and cows. You really aren't BSing yourself on your cattle costs, i believe you... but i think you could learn how to cut-back on costs and implements. Work with less. Are you paying yourself an hourly labor...charged to your farm? And what would that hourly number be? Curious.

 

[TexasRancher]

You wouldn't believe the number of people in your shoes selling 40 acres and buying 150 in this county. They have the same attitude as you about the money and are sick of the rat race and growth.

Wow...a man that Guessed my gameplan.

 

[TexasRancher]

I agree with CB if your gonna do the numbers everything should be included, the generator might only use 2 gallons a year but it should have an oil change every year as well as being depreciated, fuel and maintenance, depreciation on the tractor/ truck to put the hay out.
I find nothing wrong with how Texas is enjoying his cattle, he is a low input operation. How old are those calves when you sell them at that weight? It sounds a bit on the light side to me and suggests that maybe you could spend a bit more money on some fertilizer in summer.
I class myself unashammably as a hobby farmer, I don't keep any financial records nor do a tax return. I don't claim back the 10% goods and services tax from the government so I pay my way keeping my government in the manner to which they are accustommed. I judge how I am going by the balance in my bank account and how often I have to add to it to top it up from my limited resources but then I'm not going to live forever and at the moment with our cattle prices and good season I think it might have added another 5 years to how long I can live for. I love what I do, certainly the best years of my life.
When I retired I just did not want to keep financial records anymore, my goal was to disappear off the planet as far as the tax office was concerned and I think I have achieved that. I know if I did have to do a tax return they would owe me a lot more than I owed them but I am happy it keeps them at bay.

Ken

Yes, I've started looking at those depreciation forms...but i'm so low key ...it's not needed. I sell my calves at 500 to 700 lbs, 600 is ideal at around 9 months, i go under and over due variations in births dates..2 to 4 months out. I don't stack weight on calves for profits...mother's self ween them.
Ken, the IRS rode my coattails for years...it was a lot of fun. You will always have a friend in the IRS to talk with about fishing, hunting and cattle when you get old. I'm not afraid of any government entity...I'll work with them. I enjoy them...however one woman made me cry literally...she was THAT good and abusive. Afterwards i was coddled by a nice IRS gentleman, like myself, and we resolved the entire issue in 7 minutes... what she failed to do in 3 years.
Ken, please get you Ag-Timber exemption card at minimum...for farm purchases. Print off the "Schedule F" form and look at it...it's easy to fill out. Your 1040 would be easy too....unless you're in hiding. As my father always told me..."don't worry about it...just do your best" sounded like weak, silly advice...but it was the backbone of my entire life.

 

[okiefiddle]

Looks like when you sell your 3 calves, you will about break even on your stated expense. What is the status of the other 4 cows, or they with a calf? If they each have a nice calf, you might come out in the black.