We may all be missing the boat, by not raising Corrientes!

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puzzledIo> Interesting, I have some 7/8 Red Angus Corrientes heifers with more red in the side panels than yours are showing.
I have had a 15/16ths but so far all have been solid red. This may be the 1st year for a 15/16 red (or black) spotted
calf. I see you have a b&w spotted cow with a r&w calf. I have a 1/2 Corrientes 1/2 Red Angus cow that has had
2 blacks, 2reds, 2 black & white and 2 red & white calves! The best part they have all come in the first 30 days of the
calving period. (The colors listed are not in order) This year she has a black (red cast) heifer which I may keep.

There are also some black and white plus the majority are solid red and a brindle mother or two. Regardless of color
I will not keep heifer that is not born in the 1st 30 days. Nor will I keep a calf from a cow that has any calf past the
30 day mark. This started off with purebred Red Angus top and bottom now I think there 3 purebred cows left.
Once they get to 3/4 blood the Corrientes will hold their own for the most part. The one thing that impressed me
most is that after I acquired the Corrientes the rest of the herd started eating plants they had avoided for years!
Some of that I will credit to a strict rotational grazing program.
PS Your teeth are secure from this source if you disagree with anything posted herein,,,,LVR
:) Its interesting. The guy I purchased the Corriente from told me that a friend of his would bring a Black Corriente bull for him to use each year, then he laughed and said "but you never know what color the calves will be". I never felt the two 1/2 Corriente cows I had resembled the Corriente, except for the color pattern. Did you use the Red bull with Corriente heifers/cows or did you bring in a Corriente bull ?
 
Nice looking cattle. No doubt in my mind that criollo type cattle have some good traits. It's like everything else, there are some conditions and outfits that they could work good in and in others the positives don't out weigh the negatives marketing wise. Speaking from personal experience of raising commercial Herefords, we like them but the markets don't.
The Corriente bull was in my price range, and I'm still seeing spots. :)
 
I wouldn't know, Shaz. Don't know that I ever heard of anyone feeding out Corrientes for beef. Roped out steers, and cows and bulls too old to breed are most likely ground up, like dairy cow culls are, into hamburger. Apparently, though, the Angus or Brangus x Corriente steers marble enough to gain CAB status.
No offense but, I'd have to see that in person to be convinced that a corriente cross(50/50) will make CAB.
 
puzzledio>I use the best Red Angus bull I can justify from nationally recognized breeders. Red Angus has recessive color genes therefore a
percentage of the color genes from the dam will be passed down. Not sure if the chance of throwing a spotted calf increases with
each generation of spotted calves. Right now I am shooting for a 15/16 and beyond spotted Red Angus extremely fertile cross.
The heifers are bred no sooner than 15 months to a 5 frame low milk EPD bull. In my opinion a good beef herd can be ruined using
high milking bulls as it results in high milking high maintenance, short duration mothers if you retain the heifer calves.
Time permitting (mine) I will see what a spotted bull will do once I get a good one a generation beyond 15/16ths.
I feel using a Corriente bull is going in the wrong direction to obtain the quality I have in mind. LVR
 
I've got a question, at the risk of being hated on for bringing it up, with everything that allegedly qualifies for CAB, is there ever a point on the hoof that they are graded? Carcass graded, ie accepted or rejected?
I would hope so, for at least some semblance of credibility. I'm my understanding there are physical phenotypical standards qualifications as well as carcass yield and grade qualifications that I am not convinced some of the aforementioned breed crosses would meet. They may be black in color but phenotypically it would show, especially in a large group of like bred calves. Carcass grade wise, I can't see Jersey or Corriente cross calves meeting the yield requirements even if they met the required quality grade pertaining to marbling. We have sold some calves in a graded sale that is geared toward CHB and even as lax and inconsistent as the grading for that sale they do seem to grade hard on light muscled calves and are sold as such. An example we had never had any that graded as what they call #3 muscle until last spring's sale. Had a calf by the longhorn cow in my avatar and even though he was out of a very thick Hereford bull, the other showed through as did a bottle raised calf from a purchased old light muscled Hereford cow. Others have made the grade and sold as Red Crosses, I have purchased some groups of calves there and several have had Brahman influence and one dehorned longhorn within the groups, yet they were individually graded, I guess they passed inspection by the grader on that day.
Disclaimer: I'm not implying anything about the op being untruthful about it being said that a large group of corriente cross calves were sold as CAB acceptable, because on sale day a large group of decent looking black calves would sell accordingly. I'm just wondering how they would really do after that point in the feedlots and on the rail.
Ky, here is a website that tells how a carcass attains CAB status. This is done by USDA inspectors at the processing plants. No one unloads cattle at a sale barn and tells people these are CAB eligible steers. Buyers just know, that a black calf stands the chance of reaching CAB status, where as a Herford or Charolais or Brahma doesn't. So they will bid more for them than for a steer that they know won't. When they send these to the feedlots, they don't say " Hey,. I brought you a load of CAB steers". Feedlots just know that these steers will stand a better chance of getting the CAB label at the processor than non-Angus will. When we unloaded the steers Sunday night at the barn. No one said they were 1/2 Corriente. No one said they were 1.l2 Angus. Neither did anyone at the barn ask. They just ask you the name to put on the ticket after they have them all tagged with their numbers. https://www.myfearlesskitchen.com/certified-angus-beef/

No one is trying to trick or deceive anyone else ( Well maybe people trying to create Black Simmental and black Limosines and I hear..black Charolais.. are) People have just found you can get 4 700 lb Corriente heifers or cows for $300-$400, a Longhorn cow for a few hundred more that weighs 1000 lbs, get you a commerccial 1100 pound grade Angus cow for $1250-$1500, a $25,000 registered Black Angus World Champion cow, and a 1500 lb Limosine, and a Gelbieve cow foir about $2k each, and breed all of them too registered, homozygous for black Angus bull, and all of these calves will be about the same size and all look alike at 6 mos. And bring the same price at a sale. So yo';d make more profit on the Corriente cross calves than the others. None of those other cows I listed, will wean a calf at 6 mos that weighs 75% or more of their mommas weight. The $300 cows wean a $700 calf, double the price of the cow. These others wlil NOT wean a steer that is 75% of their weight, that will bring double what you gave for the cow. A lot of folks on here got hung up,. or focused on, the type pasture my friend had his cows on. But the same would apply if you had belly-deep, lush,. heavily fertilized and weeded pastures, and fed your cattle a bag of sweet feed each per day. You would still be able to keep 4 Corrientes on the same acreage as one ..say Simmental...and you'd spend a lot less on vetting , worming, fly control tick control. hay, feed and supplements, etc, on these 4 than 1 British or Continental cow.

This trend is becoming so prevalent that Corriente breeders have jumped on the black band wagon and are trying to breed for black Corriente. For a roping or dogging stock contractor, we'd not want all black steers. We would prefer a multi color pen of steers for an event. The cow color doesn;t maatter when bred to a BB Black Angus bull.
 
Warren,

In your original post you said "IF I ever decide to fool with cow/calf operations again,. then this is exactly what I'd do: Buy these $300 cows that will give me a $700-$750 calf the first year, with zero labor, zero calving problems,. zero vet costs, and virtually zero feed costs. Like Longhorns, Corriente are as heat, disease, insect and parasite resistant as a Brahma, and as cold tolerant as a Highlander."

I'm curious, if you're not fooling with a cow/calf operation these days, what are you doing in the cattle business?
 
I've got to call bs on this post. 120 cows and 120 calves on 200 acres of junk pasture would be nothing but dirt with that many lbs of cattle on it. I know corriente eat anything but brush doesn't produce very many lbs of forage. The calves topped the sale ??? I can see some of them fooling the buyer but not all. If you take junk cows and breed them to good bulls alot of the steers will be hatchet azzed and boney. A good bull doesn't work magic. Iam sure there's some truth in this just don't know were.
Everything I say, Skippy, is the truth. Are you calling me a liar too? You wanna come down here and see for yourself? The cows are still on it, Tell ya what, hoss....you come down here and if this pasture is all dirt, I will give you $5k cash. Just bring $5k with you to pay me once you see it is like I said. Put your money where your mouth is, son. Or have you let your mouth wriote a check your ass can't cash? Hard to put any credibility in something someone who hasn't a damned clue what...or WHO.. they are talking about says.
 
@Warren Allison I made the same comment that some thing does not quite match up. I feel like there is more to the story that we are not picking up on. That is a very impressive stocking rate for any cattle.

I looked at your profile and you are in Georgia, correct? If I understand correctly from talking with other people its not that uncommon to run a pair to an acre or two in some parts of Georgia?

I'm speculating here but I'm guessing this pasture is a lot better than maybe your description leads us to believe. It may be not that great for your area, but it sounds like it's pretty darn good compared to what a lot of others on this board may be use to, myself included.

My other question is are they on the same pasture all year long?

I'm not trying to question your credibility here... I'm just trying to connect the dots.
 
I wonder if many people have any idea what a ''cattle buyer'' or a feed lot'' is? Some people are very proud of what they THINK the know.
 
@Warren Allison that is what I was saying I wasn't saying that they were being misrepresented in any way, just being sold as is as black calves. That is how we sell ours too. The only questions asked are if they are weaned and if they have had shots. My question was that I wonder down the road in the feedlots and on the rail what those Angus/corriente or Angus/Jersey end up being growth and end product wise.
As a side note, the little longhorn cow in my avatar is the only cow that I have that I can say more than paid for herself with her first calf. That being said there is a difference between her calves and the calves from our Angus or Hereford type cows
 
Warren,

In your original post you said "IF I ever decide to fool with cow/calf operations again,. then this is exactly what I'd do: Buy these $300 cows that will give me a $700-$750 calf the first year, with zero labor, zero calving problems,. zero vet costs, and virtually zero feed costs. Like Longhorns, Corriente are as heat, disease, insect and parasite resistant as a Brahma, and as cold tolerant as a Highlander."

I'm curious, if you're not fooling with a cow/calf operation these days, what are you doing in the cattle business?
Tennesee Tux, I am not in the cattle business pre se. Never was, really. I am in the horse business. Cattle are a nuisance that is necessary to do what I do with the kind of horses I have. About the only cow-calf operation I ever maintained for any length of time, was I actually raised roping stock in the 80;s and about the mid-90's with the surge in the teampenning craze, I actually starting breeding these cows to Angus bulls, to get polled uniformed color cattle for teampennoing and sorting. I was and am.. primarily a trader. Used to I would buy them and keep them a while, etc. Now days, I am usually buying for a client. I rarely own any cattle for more than few days. If I am not using the client's money, but using my money, I try to have them sold before I buy them. People contact me about insuring their farms. Some still contact me because they assume I still sell trailers. The Brangus breeder crossing them with Black Herefords that I have posted about, called me about insurance. After I met him, we talked about horses, and I got him some, spent some time showing him and his family how to ride them, etc. Then he started talking about building a multi-use building that he could have sales in, and horse events, ropings etc in. So, I served as his GC til we got it designed and built.

The only cattle I own full time now, is 3 Corriente steers. There are 8 of us that like to practice team roping, and we all 8 keep three steers each, so we have 24 that we keep at the friend's place that has the arena.

And, I still help friends with their cattle...some. I will even bring a horse for them to ride, but I never get out of the saddle. I pen and sort and rope them...I won't do any ground work.; I wouldn't get in 4 H show ring with calves in it on foot. I detest cows.. but I love working them on a good horse. I might pull a mower or bailer for you if you have a tractor with an AC cab, but I won't pick up a 35 lb bale. I will draw plans, do material take-offs, lay out and supervise building barns, fences corrals and other facilities, but I ain't driving a nail or digging a post hole. I sold my last farm about 2009, gave up my last leased farm about 2013. Too many broken bones are finally catching up with me in my 60's! Took a donkey to a buddy's house in May for him to use to train his kids' show calves to lead. I was surprised at how many cattle people don't know this.

Went to a cow sale ( the one I am going to take Kenny to soon) a few months back. Got to talkingh to someone w in line to unloaqd, and I could tel they didn;lt know much., First time they had been to a sale. I asked them what they wanted for the 4 calves.l The told me, ,and I paid them and put them in my name when they unloaed. Told the workers tp puyhem imn the weigh pen, and I made nearly $200.

I was the same way with horses. In my life I have stood 3 different AQHA stallions, and the longest I ever owned a foal by one of them was a week. You got three damn years in a foal counting gestation til they are 2 yr olds. My stallions, I made my money in a few seconds. Most of the money I made with horses, like cattle, was in buying and selling. And I learned 50 years ago, your money is made or lost when you buy, not sell.
 
@Warren Allison I made the same comment that some thing does not quite match up. I feel like there is more to the story that we are not picking up on. That is a very impressive stocking rate for any cattle.

I looked at your profile and you are in Georgia, correct? If I understand correctly from talking with other people its not that uncommon to run a pair to an acre or two in some parts of Georgia?
That's true, in the northern parts, if you lime fertilize, 24D it, keep it mowed, etc. You can easily run a pair per acre. From about Macon on down, it is flat land, and sandy soil. They can raise as much or more hay and row crops per acre as we do, they just have too irrigate. Lots of rivers and creeks down there, so water is plentiful for this.
I'm speculating here but I'm guessing this pasture is a lot better than maybe your description leads us to believe. It may be not that great for your area, but it sounds like it's pretty darn good compared to what a lot of others on this board may be use to, myself included.
It is rough... like cut over timer or pulpwood land is. Grown up with Kudzu and honeysuckle on anything 6 inches high....fence posts, trees, shrubs etc. The clearer area is eat up with Johnson grass, which is fairly nutrituos I hear, I dunno, I hate the sh*t. Spent a l;ife time and a small fortune battling that stuff to keep it out of my Bermuda hay fields. And Kudzu is better in nutrition than alfalfa, they say
My other question is are they on the same pasture all year long?
He put these cows in after the 1st of the year. He may take them out in October or November when we start rabbit and quail hunting. if they seem to interfere with the dogs working.
I'm not trying to question your credibility here... I'm just trying to connect the dots.
I didn't take it that way at all, Brute. We good.
 
@Warren Allison that is what I was saying I wasn't saying that they were being misrepresented in any way, just being sold as is as black calves. That is how we sell ours too. The only questions asked are if they are weaned and if they have had shots. My question was that I wonder down the road in the feedlots and on the rail what those Angus/corriente or Angus/Jersey end up being growth and end product wise.
As a side note, the little longhorn cow in my avatar is the only cow that I have that I can say more than paid for herself with her first calf. That being said there is a difference between her calves and the calves from our Angus or Hereford type cows
What age do you wean? What does her calf usually weigh, and how much do the Angus and Hereford calves usually weigh? And,. how much less per pound would you say her calves might bring than the Hereford or Angus calves?
 
Warren,

In your original post you said "IF I ever decide to fool with cow/calf operations again,. then this is exactly what I'd do: Buy these $300 cows that will give me a $700-$750 calf the first year, with zero labor, zero calving problems,. zero vet costs, and virtually zero feed costs. Like Longhorns, Corriente are as heat, disease, insect and parasite resistant as a Brahma, and as cold tolerant as a Highlander."

I'm curious, if you're not fooling with a cow/calf operation these days, what are you doing in the cattle business?
I would like to point out that not all of us are technically involved in the cattle business anymore. I might know a guy that buys several thousand feeder cattle a year though.
 
I would like to point out that not all of us are technically involved in the cattle business anymore. I might know a guy that buys several thousand feeder cattle a year though.
No doubt. Mr. Allison mentioned that he had been involved with cow/calf operations in the past so I was prompted to inquire. Had he mentioned feedlots I would have asked him about that.
 
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What age do you wean? What does her calf usually weigh, and how much do the Angus and Hereford calves usually weigh? And,. how much less per pound would you say her calves might bring than the Hereford or Angus calves?
Weaned around 7 months, usually sold a couple months later, weighing a little over 500. Her last years Hereford cross calf was sold at around 11 months and weighed somewhere around 650, not sure exactly right off hand. He brought probably .15 under the straight Herefords in that Hereford influence sale, and was graded as light muscled. Her calf this year is currently probably atleast 50 lbs behind his contemporaries. I like the cow and think that she does earn her keep, but am not ready to actually want a whole herd of them. Even though I do believe those kind of cattle have some good traits, the limited growth and dock at sale time doesn't make them appealing to me on a large scale, in the same way that smaller framed beef cows don't appeal to me, although if our market didn't penalize them I would like the smaller cows.
 
I went to Intermountain Livestock in La Grande Oregon today to watch the sale. They had a group of 50 black steers weighing right at 600. Too many for their ring at one time. So they ran in 25 weighed them on the ring scale. The buyers cut one out. Then they ran in the second group weighed them. Buyers cut out 2. They then sold 47 steers in one shot. They brought $170.25 cwt. They sold the cut outs individually. The 2 Longhorn cross calves brought 84 and 77 cents respectively. The third one looked to be a quarter Holstein. It brought $1.24. Those Longhorns cost just as much to raise as those straight Angus. The Angus steers brought $1,021.50. The Longhorn cross calves brought $504 and $462. I sure can't afford to raise that kind of calves.
 

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