Why wean calves?

[TexasRancher]

This is why our industry has so many problems. It's time to stop doing math like a cowboy and start doing real math like the businesses getting rich off our product.

I do understand what you're saying and it's good we have people, like you, "that arrived" to fight and help all struggling cattleman. However, each of us are learning and improving our methods as time goes on...some, like me, are focused on the pasture land, improvements and quality as much as the cattle. I'm fairly new to cattle production, there's a hell of a lot to learn and it's enjoyable. Maybe my 4th or 5th year I'll break even or turn a profit. For God and myself...it's not about business or stepping out of cattle because I'm not making a profit. No, when I get older and can't move good (or die)....I'll be like "Wow what a Trip...Life, Land and Cattle have been, I want to Go Again" (only gratitude and appreciation). God takes care of me and my cattle...and He'll take care of those devious sloth middle-men making-taking a profit on our backs...whether with FIGHTERS like you Brute or when the Divine day comes for them.
My thoughts on my cattle experience " I don't know what the hell I'm doing...but I'm having a ball".... i found out hardly anybody (even seasoned cattlemen) knows what they're doing either". I want to have fun first, business second....else why would i want to force myself and force my cattle to do the impossible together (for the business plan) and both be unhappy. The happiest times for me is when I'm working on the land and my cattle get done grazing-eating and come to see me, be around me. Pure Bliss! God has given me the golden treasure of cattle...and in fact a lot of gold and silver too! Walking with God.

 

[CowboyRam]

I also agree on Dave's comment about weaning weight loss. I know it is "expected", but I don't see it with my calves. Low stress weaning (fenceline weaning) - healthy, already completely vaccinated BEFORE weaning = minimum weight loss. Part of "low stress" is not running them thru the chute at weaning - so, no, I don't have a start wt - but, I can see when my calves are stressed/losing wt. I have weights from 60 days before weaning and calculate ADG.

This is my first year with fence line weaning, and I loaded up my calves and weighed them the day I weaned. I will weigh them when I take them to the sale barn in January. I dumped the in the pasture right next to the cows, they just went to grazing; didn't even realize that mama was on the other side of the fence. I can't say they lost any weight at all.

 

[simme]

There is risk in most anything. Understanding that risk is very dependent on specific experience and knowledge, probably more so than on spreadsheets. Perhaps both are beneficial. Those who never take risk will minimize losses - except for one thing. They will also miss out on opportunity. There is a story in the Good Book about being risk averse to the extent of keeping money safe by not using it as opposed to making wise use to multiply the value. Everyone has to sort that out for themselves based on their situation. Take advise from lots of people. Then figure it out for yourself. You will sometimes make mistakes which will add to your experience and knowledge.

 

[Lucky]

My experience has been that if properly vaccinated and fence line weaned the calves will back up very little if any at all. We keep them in a trap with fresh water and hay for 7 days. This trap is connected to the corrals and borders the cow pasture on 2 sides. From December to March when on feed they will gain and back up depending on the weather but will continue to grow frame wich is what we are really after during this time.

Things that I've found cause weight loss and sickness during the weaning process are dehorning, castration, not previously having the first round of shots, no fresh water, and not fence line weaning. Others on here have said the same thing and I really believe it to be true. Of course I can only speak to the warmer weather we have here though. Cold wet weather seems to zap them.

 

[Lucky]

I'm going to put this right here so people understand what's... what.

I couldn't get your entire post to quote Brute but, I don't think we are on the same page. I'm not saying the odd things you buy here and there hold their value and of course that stuff is factored in. I'm talking about big equipment expenses such as feeders, troughs, feedbins, tractors, cube boxes, etc. These things hold their value while making you money. Maybe I'm wrong but to me this is better than money in the bank. When I'm spending $200-300 a day feeding for 100 - 120 days I'm smart enough to know that while it is an expense it's also making me money. At the same time I try minimize waste and cost by making sure it's done efficiently and effectively. You keep refuting my post but don't give any examples or advice other than the same old feed Store blah blah blah. If you have a better strategy I'd love to hear it. I'm always open to new ideas.

 

[Brute 23]

I couldn't get your entire post to quote Brute but, I don't think we are on the same page. I'm not saying the odd things you buy here and there hold their value and of course that stuff is factored in. I'm talking about big equipment expenses such as feeders, troughs, feedbins, tractors, cube boxes, etc. These things hold their value while making you money. Maybe I'm wrong but to me this is better than money in the bank. When I'm spending $200-300 a day feeding for 100 - 120 days I'm smart enough to know that while it is an expense it's also making me money. At the same time I try minimize waste and cost by making sure it's done efficiently and effectively. You keep refuting my post but don't give any examples or advice other than the same old feed Store blah blah blah. If you have a better strategy I'd love to hear it. I'm always open to new ideas.

You are a smart guy I don't doubt any thing you are saying or that you are wise with your money we are just not operating on the same frequency.

Feel free to PM or some thing if you want to chat some more.

 

[moses388]

CAB Cattle states weaning around 90 days of age increases the reproductive performance of the cows.

Just wondering if many people are doing this. I usually wean around 6 months.

 

[Lucky]

CAB Cattle states weaning around 90 days of age increases the reproductive performance of the cows.

Just wondering if many people are doing this. I usually wean around 6 months.

That would definitely increase cow efficiency. I'm not sure about the trade off though. He talks about powerhouse genetics but genetic ability is limited to what's available to the animal.

 

[Banjo]

I agree with one thing the article says about weaning .....the transition should be as smooth as possible.
For me i've found that weaning on grass is the easiest and most economical as long as they aren't too young. Early weaning almost always guarantees high feed bills. While it may be better on a cow to nurse only 90 days...thats where culling comes into play. All cows aren't created equal. Some need to be pampered/culled.....and some can raise a good calf year after year under most conditions...those are the ones you keep and try to produce more of.

 

[Lucky]

It doesn't surprise me that the Angus association put this out there. They have been inflating weaning weights for years but the last I checked the static 205 day weight is still 550#. I think the article mentioned this. Angus cross calves sired by good Angus bulls do perform better than most other breeds once on feed through. I'm sure given the opportunity and proper supplements they will wean at 750 too, problem is for most this just isn't feasible.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

The one thing a cow does is give you a calf each year. If she can't feed/raise her calf longer than 3 months, she is a cull. That is free growth as far as I'm concern. Cow isn't going anywhere. You still have to provide all her nutrition year in and year out. If my cow can't keep her condition on grass and hay AND raise a 7-8 month old calf, and breed back in a 60 day season, she is a cull
Everyone knows I raise Simmental - big Simmental which are really, really good milkers. Not like my old 1970's, 1980's cows, but more than adequate to raise a big calf.
Location is everything. My land grows grass and grows enough to make the hay to feed my cattle 6 months of the year. It would be a total waste of my time to have a little cow or a cow that can't raise a big calf. EVERY cow, big or little requires just as much TIME to observe .... for health, breeding, calving, injuries. EVERY cow takes just as much TIME to work thru the chute, Everyone likes to claim a little cow won't eat as much, but research proves their maintenance isn't linear. Worming would be one thing that costs more for a big cow since it is based on weight. My TIME is worth something (maybe not much - LOL)_

 

[CowboyRam]

It's just not feasible for me to wean in 90 days. The cows go out on the desert end of May or first of June depending on how the grass is, and don't come off until middle or end of October. I start caving here on the farm about the 2nd or 3rd week of March. I usually try pull the bulls off at 60 days, but that sometimes doesn't happen.

 

[Warren Allison]

I have been watching auctions online today, mostly 1 in Missouri and 1 in Oklahoma. 2 Corr cows in Missouri, average weight 603lbs, just brought $1.31! Granted they were solid black, but damn!! Next were 4 black steers, they announced were long-timed weaned, wormed and had two rounds of shots, averaging 598lbs brought $1.42. Flipped over to Oklahoma, and saw 6 black and black baldy heifers, average weight 663 pounds, 2 rounds of vaccinations, bring $1.36. Just saw 2 Holstein steers that averaged 703 lbs ( skin and bones, should have weighed 800 or more) in Arkansas sell. When I signed in auctioneer was at 56, and finally got to 63 when he said sold. I just assumed it was .63 cents/lb. NO! They brought $1.63!!! Man, if there was a way to " Beam them up, Scotty) like they did on Star Trek, you could make a fortune buying at 1 sale and selling them at another.!

 

[CowboyRam]

I have been watching auctions online today, mostly 1 in Missouri and 1 in Oklahoma. 2 Corr cows in Missouri, average weight 603lbs, just brought $1.31! Granted they were solid black, but damn!! Next were 4 black steers, they announced were long-timed weaned, wormed and had two rounds of shots, averaging 598lbs brought $1.42. Flipped over to Oklahoma, and saw 6 black and black baldy heifers, average weight 663 pounds, 2 rounds of vaccinations, bring $1.36. Just saw 2 Holstein steers that averaged 703 lbs ( skin and bones, should have weighed 800 or more) in Arkansas sell. When I signed in auctioneer was at 56, and finally got to 63 when he said sold. I just assumed it was .63 cents/lb. NO! They brought $1.63!!! Man, if there was a way to " Beam them up, Scotty) like they did on Star Trek, you could make a fortune buying at 1 sale and selling them at another.!

I find it interesting how in different parts of the country what the buys are looking for is different. Here any other color than black get discounted. All Black and Black baldies sell for the most. We also get discounted for horns as well. My goal is to cull all my cows that produce calves with horns or produce other colors than black.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

I do understand what you're saying and it's good we have people, like you, "that arrived" to fight and help all struggling cattleman. However, each of us are learning and improving our methods as time goes on...some, like me, are focused on the pasture land, improvements and quality as much as the cattle. I'm fairly new to cattle production, there's a hell of a lot to learn and it's enjoyable. Maybe my 4th or 5th year I'll break even or turn a profit. For God and myself...it's not about business or stepping out of cattle because I'm not making a profit. No, when I get older and can't move good (or die)....I'll be like "Wow what a Trip...Life, Land and Cattle have been, I want to Go Again" (only gratitude and appreciation). God takes care of me and my cattle...and He'll take care of those devious sloth middle-men making-taking a profit on our backs...whether with FIGHTERS like you Brute or when the Divine day comes for them.
My thoughts on my cattle experience " I don't know what the hell I'm doing...but I'm having a ball".... i found out hardly anybody (even seasoned cattlemen) knows what they're doing either". I want to have fun first, business second....else why would i want to force myself and force my cattle to do the impossible together (for the business plan) and both be unhappy. The happiest times for me is when I'm working on the land and my cattle get done grazing-eating and come to see me, be around me. Pure Bliss! God has given me the golden treasure of cattle...and in fact a lot of gold and silver too! Walking with God.

Thou art too modest! Walking the walk, albeit more difficult, is much more rewarding than talking the talk. I can appreciate the "I don't know
what I am doing'' and that makes the faith and perseverance even more rewarding. While tradition can be a good thing one should be careful
of being the last to get rid of the old. When someone tells you, "that won't work around here, you can almost be guaranteed that someone
within a 100 miles is already doing it. For myself I consider any cow having a calf in the 1st 30 days of the calving season as inventor and
asset. Anything calving after 30 days as potentially for sale

CAB Cattle states weaning around 90 days of age increases the reproductive performance of the cows.

Just wondering if many people are doing this. I usually wean around 6 months.

This is not to debate the issue but it is my viewpoint that maintaining a 5-6 body condition during the last trimester of pregnancy
and the 1st 90 days of milk production may have more influence on reproductive performance than simply depending on a 90 day
weaning regimen.

 

[J+ Cattle]

Here any other color than black get discounted. All Black and Black baldies sell for the most. We also get discounted for horns as well. My goal is to cull all my cows that produce calves with horns or produce other colors than black.

Proper bull selection will do most of the work for you, keep the cows and get a black Angus bull, you could have some calves with scurs but it will knock the horns off of them.

 

[TCRanch]

The one thing a cow does is give you a calf each year. If she can't feed/raise her calf longer than 3 months, she is a cull. That is free growth as far as I'm concern. Cow isn't going anywhere. You still have to provide all her nutrition year in and year out. If my cow can't keep her condition on grass and hay AND raise a 7-8 month old calf, and breed back in a 60 day season, she is a cull
Everyone knows I raise Simmental - big Simmental which are really, really good milkers. Not like my old 1970's, 1980's cows, but more than adequate to raise a big calf.
Location is everything. My land grows grass and grows enough to make the hay to feed my cattle 6 months of the year. It would be a total waste of my time to have a little cow or a cow that can't raise a big calf. EVERY cow, big or little requires just as much TIME to observe .... for health, breeding, calving, injuries. EVERY cow takes just as much TIME to work thru the chute, Everyone likes to claim a little cow won't eat as much, but research proves their maintenance isn't linear. Worming would be one thing that costs more for a big cow since it is based on weight. My TIME is worth something (maybe not much - LOL)_

While I agree, I recently attended Herd Health Strategies, sponsored by Zoetis & my vet clinic. Dr. Bob Larson, K-State College of Vet Med, made me stop and think. I've always been of the mindset that if a cow raises a dink, she gets a ride on the trailer. He was specifically talking about older cows, but raised the point: why? If she's still in good health/condition and calving during a defined calving season (or even all year, if that's how your operation works), she's paid for and you're still getting a calf. Hmmmm. I haven't bought a cow since our original 33 bred cows in '09, so "paid for" doesn't necessarily apply in my world. I've always strived for a uniform calf crop. But I did get the top bid for my tiny little Mighty Mouse this year (and squat for his mama when I hauled her in).

Since your herd is registered, this certainly wouldn't apply to you. But food for thought.

 

[J+ Cattle]

I've had cows that raise dinks, all of the other cows raise bigger calves than they do regardless of the bull used. So they had to go away. This year you got a good price because the market is up but would the dink have paid the bills in a down market? My conclusion is that the cow that raises a dink will continue to raise dinks. I don't know if it's lower milking ability or failure to pass along growth genetics to the calf but I don't really care either. They can't stay here.

 

[bird dog]

There is a difference in dinks and a cow that just raises small calves. If you use percentage of mom's weight as a measuring stick, the weaned calf may weigh 500 lbs but be at 55% of the small cows weight. Not bad. True dinks are the ones out of 1200 lb calves that weigh 350 lbs at weaning. They are usually short in statue, have a rough coat and a pot belly. If anyone wants to buy one, I have two for sale.

True dinks are a one off for me. A vet once told me that sometimes the genes from the bull and cow just don't mesh together right. Sometimes you have a dead calf, sometimes you have a dink. If its a young cow, she gets to to stay. A $400 calf is better than nothing. If its a cow older than 8, than we have to look a little closer. This is when good records help.

 

[Warren Allison]

I find it interesting how in different parts of the country what the buys are looking for is different. Here any other color than black get discounted. All Black and Black baldies sell for the most. We also get discounted for horns as well. My goal is to cull all my cows that produce calves with horns or produce other colors than black.

It is the same at all of the auctions I have been watching: Midwest, south east, west coast, Canada. It isn't so much that other calves are discounted, as it is that black fetches a premium. But yes, red, white, spotted etc., don't bring as much down here as in other parts. And having Brahma influence actually helps down here. In South Ga and Fla, a Brangus of the same weight will bring as much or more than an Angus. A Braford cow will for sure bring more by the head than a Herford. You can't give a Charolais, Simmental, or red Angus, but further down south a Brahma x Charolais, or BR x Simm or Br x red Angus, cow will sell very well.