100% AI?

[hornedfrogbbq]

bryan, i put a patch on them 17 days after breeding, then breed as needed, blood check 28 days after, then i have put a cidr in when i get the negative at 30 days. gonna recycle at around 42 anyway but with the cidr its on my terms. bbq really cant wrap my head around turning bulls in early, i understand good bulls, but id give the cows lute let the bulls do it, save that money. or just breed what needs breeding early. i do think turning bulls in day after in a commercial setting is a great idea.

Just giving it a try this time. We have seen that some cows come in earlier than our timed AI session...so we have a bull in there just in case. Then AI (we are working on building a really efficient, medium sized cow that has outstanding fertility and moderate milk) everything and bull in right afterwards. We were concerned about them fighting but that didn't happen.

Trying to find 1200 -1300lb cows that give moderate milk, retain their flesh and breed back after 45 days from calving is hard to do. We cull super hard on fertility/timing. It is too dry and hot down here for too much milk or frame size...at least we think it is.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

frogBBQ - you are missing out on a lot of AI breeding that way. When I CIDR and Lutalyse, I may have 2 out of 15 that I end up time breeding. All the others already showed heat and were AI bred.
How do you know who to Time breed? Do you have a marker on your bull?

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

We do a 7 day Co-synch with CIDR. So i think 2 days before our AI session, we put the bulls in on them. we figure we might catch a half dozen that way that will cycle BEFORE our session. Then we AI and the bulls are with them about an hour after the ai session.

thoughts? We're experimenting so if our conception rate on the first throw opportunity goes up, i'll be sure and post the results. If not, i'll post them after a drink or two.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

So, you must not care who the calves are out of, just want to get the bull to breed as many as they can handle?
By turning the bull out 1 hour after AI "session", you do realize that the AI calf is potentially sired by your bull?
I really don't understand why you even bother to AI - I'm confused???? There is a very short window between pulling the CIDR and TAI.

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

Exactly. I'm am mostly concerned with the highest pregnancy rate in the AI session regardless of the AI taking or the bull doing it. The bulls we buy are as good or better than most (IMHO...) and have very unique traits we are trying to foster in the retention of our heifers. I'm indifferent as to the AI session impregnating the cow or the bull later that day. We typically run about a 60-74% success rate in our AI program. I'd like to get 80% or better bred up in that 3 day-ish window.

We are AI'ing to bring in other genetics and target specific things we want out of specific cows. That being said, and not to have any ego in this because we screw-up all the time but we go through over 10,000 bulls for sale every year and target very specific bulls to buy. We buy all over the nation and we really like what we buy (or, when we make a mistake, they last one year and they are out of our program).

We have two Journey sons right now that won't make it a second year with us. Good bulls, registered and from a great cow family each...but we bought them young and knew we were taking a chance. We haven't liked the way they have grown out.

Bottom line: we can never "recapture" the 21 days if a cow doesn't get pregnant early in the season. That is at least 40lbs/head we will not sell since we sell all our steers at the same time. An increase in 10% on my conception rate around the AI heat will add over 1000lbs to our sales potentially. It will tighten up our calving window and it will make our calves more uniform if more are born at the same time as the AI.

Who knows...it may not work! We are just experimenting.

 

[gizmom]

Our herdsman Mike has not had a bull since his dad died and that has been over 20 years ago. He has a 90 day calving cycle. He runs 20 to 30 mamma cows plus works with us and does AI for other farms so it is possible to achieve 100% AI like anything else you just have to work at it.

Gizmom

 

[True Grit Farms]

Exactly. I'm am mostly concerned with the highest pregnancy rate in the AI session regardless of the AI taking or the bull doing it. The bulls we buy are as good or better than most (IMHO...) and have very unique traits we are trying to foster in the retention of our heifers. I'm indifferent as to the AI session impregnating the cow or the bull later that day. We typically run about a 60-74% success rate in our AI program. I'd like to get 80% or better bred up in that 3 day-ish window.

We are AI'ing to bring in other genetics and target specific things we want out of specific cows. That being said, and not to have any ego in this because we screw-up all the time but we go through over 10,000 bulls for sale every year and target very specific bulls to buy. We buy all over the nation and we really like what we buy (or, when we make a mistake, they last one year and they are out of our program).

We have two Journey sons right now that won't make it a second year with us. Good bulls, registered and from a great cow family each...but we bought them young and knew we were taking a chance. We haven't liked the way they have grown out.

Bottom line: we can never "recapture" the 21 days if a cow doesn't get pregnant early in the season. That is at least 40lbs/head we will not sell since we sell all our steers at the same time. An increase in 10% on my conception rate around the AI heat will add over 1000lbs to our sales potentially. It will tighten up our calving window and it will make our calves more uniform if more are born at the same time as the AI.

Who knows...it may not work! We are just experimenting.

Why even bother with the expense and hassle of AI? I like the 7 day protocol deal and think that will tighten up your calving season. Just turn the bulls in on day 6 and sit on the porch sipping sweet tea.

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

Maybe we will try that next year?!

 

[True Grit Farms]

Maybe we will try that next year?!

Using a 7 day protocol and putting the bulls in when you pull the cidr's, I think if you had the bull power the results would be 90%+ after the cows second cycle.

 

[Son of Butch]

Reasonable expectation/goal of 95% pg in 65 day window for 100 cow herd

67% conception on 1st service = 67 pg out of 100 cows
63.5% conception on the 33 second service cows 33 x .635 = 21 pg + 67 pg = 88 pg after the cows second cycle
58.5% on the 12 third service cows 7 pg cows + 88 pg = 95% pg in 3 cycles (65 days)

5 cull cows after 3rd cycle
OR
19 pg out of every 20 cows in herd after 3 cycles

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

Reasonable expectation/goal of 95% pg in 65 day window for 100 cow herd

67% conception on 1st service = 67 pg out of 100 cows
63.5% conception on the 33 second service cows 33 x .635 = 21 pg + 67 pg = 88 pg after the cows second cycle
58.5% on the 12 third service cows 7 pg cows + 88 pg = 95% pg in 3 cycles (65 days)

5 cull cows after 3rd cycle
OR
19 pg out of every 20 cows in herd after 3 cycles

What ratio of bulls to cows are you assuming with this?

 

[ez14.]

Reasonable expectation/goal of 95% pg in 65 day window for 100 cow herd

67% conception on 1st service = 67 pg out of 100 cows
63.5% conception on the 33 second service cows 33 x .635 = 21 pg + 67 pg = 88 pg after the cows second cycle
58.5% on the 12 third service cows 7 pg cows + 88 pg = 95% pg in 3 cycles (65 days)

5 cull cows after 3rd cycle
OR
19 pg out of every 20 cows in herd after 3 cycles

What ratio of bulls to cows are you assuming with this?

I think he's talking AI

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

If AI, what process do you follow? Timed AI? Standing heat detection? Just Lut them?

 

[Son of Butch]

I will have 13 cows to breed this fall. I intend to synchronize them and have them bred on timed AI.
I will catch the stragglers on observed heats.
How realistic is it to expect to get them all bred this way?
Any pointers/tips for going 100% AI?

Cow age and reproductive health is always 1/2 the equation so all (no) 12 of 13 (yes)
100% would be ideal - 12 of 13 is a very reasonable achievable goal for either A.I. or a bull
61.5% conception on 1st service = 8 pg of 13
60% on the 5 second service cows = 3 pg
50% on the final 2 cows = 1 pg
12 of 13 pg in 65 days and it will take 20 straws of semen to do it and at $25 per straw that is $500 in semen alone

Your success on 2nd and 3rd services will depend on your ability to observe heat and get semen into them on time.
Bulls have a major advantage in that... (catching the stragglers)
AI's advantage is with timed 1st service AI you can cut your bull power in half (or more)

 

[angus9259]

I sell a lot of bulls to very frustrated people who had this exact plan.

Good luck.

 

[Son of Butch]

I sell a lot of bulls to very frustrated people who had this exact plan.

Good luck.

I'm sure that is very true and probably a few when the plan does work too.
It's never as easy as it is on paper.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

4 out of the last 5 years we did 100% AI, first four years were 100%, 85%, 90%, 95% respectively in 1 cycle. Those years were all synced and bred on observed standing heat. My wife spent a lot of time in the field watching cows.

Last year because of time constraints, a pregnant wife and some other things we synced then bred on timed AI and had 66% after the first cycle. When then bought a bull for cleanup, this year we bought a 2nd bull and are skipping AI all together because the time isn't there right now.

Moral of the story for me is if you want to rely on AI then don't go timed. Haha

 

[hornedfrogbbq]

We have done a timed AI for 6 years. Best outcome we had was 75%-ish.

 

[MRRherefords]

We did timed ai on 8 of ours this year with 100% conception. We also did several more by natural heat detection and went 100% on them too.

 

[SPH]

We do timed AI for 1 heat cycle with our top early calving females and our yearling heifers then turn all the females out with the bulls for the summer. Our conception rate is usually pretty good but will vary from year to year but at least you get your females cycling and can tighten up your calving interval as the cleanup bulls usually get them the next time if they don't settle to the AI service. We're small enough we could technically do 100% AI if we wanted to but having a good cleanup bull on hand keeps that calving interval tight and our current herd sire which is a bull we kept from an AI mating throws just as good if not better calves than we get AI. He's in the pasture for his 4th breeding season right now and we got him collected this spring so we can use him AI in the future.

When we look at AI bulls the first place we look at is the maternal pedigree. Like to see some longevity and proven performance in the cows behind the bull. If you are breeding seedstock you want good cow lines behind the bull you are using.