Navy destroyer damaged off Japan-7 sailors missing

[Caustic Burno]

Modern container ships have very little crew, and have a form of 'autopilot'.
Unless Fitzgerald was in the process of evasive maneuvers while trying to avoid another ship, or the container ship had made a 'U' turn, I don't see how it can be anyone's fault but Fitzgerald.
(unless Fitzgerald had suffered some sort of mechanical/electric problem and was 'dead in the water' art the time the collision took place.)

Sorry the line of defense is we got run over is not cutting it.
For one of our first class destroyers and first lines of defense there is no good spin to this one.
Our enemies don't need shore to ship or air to ship weapons just a slow moving container ship.
Apparently the chapter on staying out of harms way when it came to container ships was skipped.

 

[greybeard]

Your expert opinion is noted, and your military and nautical knowledge seemingly know no bounds.
One of the things radar does a very poor job at is getting a good return on large, close by objects. It comes back as clutter. 1000 yards or more away the Fitzgerald probably knew the container ship's bearing and speed, but close up, not so much.

If I were to hazard a guess, I would say the Crystal overtook the Fitzgerald from starboard aft side. It doesn't appear to be a direct 90deg hit as all the damage to the container ship is on the port side bow. It's starboard bow shows no damage in the pics I've seen so far.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Your expert opinion is noted, and your military and nautical knowledge seemingly know no bounds.
One of the things radar does a very poor job at is getting a good return on large, close by objects. It comes back as clutter. 1000 yards or more away the Fitzgerald probably knew the container ship's bearing and speed, but close up, not so much.

If I were to hazard a guess, I would say the Crystal overtook the Fitzgerald from starboard aft side. It doesn't appear to be a direct 90deg hit as all the damage to the container ship is on the port side bow. It's starboard bow shows no damage in the pics I've seen so far.

That is even worse of a pee poor excuse. Amazingly we can move thousands of vessels daily through a ship channel without incident.
There is no defense the commander of the vessel should be court martial to the fullest extent.

 

[greybeard]

You would certainly know about excuses CB.

 

[hurleyjd]

It looks to me from what I have gathered the container ship had moved past the destroyer and then made a sharp u-shaped hook turn and hit the destroyer and then went on its way. Could this have been intentional who knows I suspect questions are being asked of all involved.

 

[Caustic Burno]

You would certainly know about excuses CB.

Your the one with all the bs amazing we can move 100's of those ships a day up a 400 foot wide channel going into Houston. Apparently the gulf shrimpers can read a radar screen better than or current USN forces.

 

[Bright Raven]

Your expert opinion is noted, and your military and nautical knowledge seemingly know no bounds.
One of the things radar does a very poor job at is getting a good return on large, close by objects. It comes back as clutter. 1000 yards or more away the Fitzgerald probably knew the container ship's bearing and speed, but close up, not so much.

If I were to hazard a guess, I would say the Crystal overtook the Fitzgerald from starboard aft side. It doesn't appear to be a direct 90deg hit as all the damage to the container ship is on the port side bow. It's starboard bow shows no damage in the pics I've seen so far.

The picture does not look to me like it was T-Boned? I thought someone above said it was T-Boned.

 

[Caustic Burno]

What is more amazing is that class of warship designed to run 35 mph along
These warships were designed as multimission destroyers[5] to fit the antiaircraft warfare (AAW) role with their powerful Aegis radar and surface-to-air missiles; antisubmarine warfare (ASW), with their towed sonar array, anti-submarine rockets, and ASW helicopter; antisurface warfare (ASuW) with their Harpoon missile launcher; and strategic land strike role with their Tomahawk missiles. With upgrades to their AN/SPY-1 phased radar systems and their associated missile payloads as part of the Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System, the ships of this class have also begun to demonstrate some promise as mobile antiballistic missile and anti-satellite weaponry platforms. Some versions of the class no longer have the towed sonar, or Harpoon missile launcher. Their hull and superstructure were designed to have a reduced radar cross section.[8]

The first ship of the class was commissioned on 4 July 1991. With the decommissioning of the last Spruance-class destroyer, USS Cushing, on 21 September 2005, the Arleigh Burke-class ships became the U.S. Navy's only active destroyers; the class has the longest production run for any post-World War II U.S. Navy surface combatant.[9] Besides the 62 vessels of this class (comprising 21 of Flight I, 7 of Flight II and 34 of Flight IIA) in service by 2016, up to a further 42 (of Flight III) have been envisioned.

With an overall length of 505 to 509 feet (154 to 155 m), displacement ranging from 8,315 to 9,200 tons, and weaponry including over 90 missiles, the Arleigh Burke class are larger and more heavily armed than most previous ships classified as guided missile cruisers.[10]

I guess we forgot to design it to operate in international waters.

 

[Son of Butch]

Commander Bryce Benson was asleep in his cabin when the collision occurred at 2:30 am
Benson took command of the Fitzgerald on May 13, 2017 .... 33 days before the collision.
He was 1 of 3 airlifted to a U.S. Naval hospital in Japan. He sustained a head injury and his condition is listed as stable.

Fitzgerald launched in 1994 has been in service 23 years and joined the 7th Fleet stationed at Japan in 2004

 

[Caustic Burno]

Commander Bryce Benson was asleep in his cabin when the collision occurred at 2:30 am.
15th Commander of the Fitzgerald taking command of her on May 13, 2017 .... 33 days before the collision.
He was 1 of 3 airlifted to a U.S. Naval hospital in Japan. He sustained a head injury and his condition is listed as stable.

Fitzgerald launched in 1994 and joined the 7th Fleet stationed at Japan in 2004

Someone was in command on the bridge.
Other than complete gross negligence I can not fathom the cargo container getting within striking distance of the destroyer.

 

[hurleyjd]

According to local Japan broadcaster NHK, this is the course the container ship took that night.
(wiki entry under key word ACX Crystal from yesterday)
Although the cause of the collision is not yet known, local broadcaster NHK claimed that ACX Crystal made a sharp U-turn just before the collision (based on GPS-transponder data). The ship later continued to Tokyo Bay



I do not know how accurate that report is, if the mapping is correct or if it accurately reflects the numbers or locations of other ships in the area..or even which one is supposed to be Fitzgerald.

A lot of information from different sources at this website. http://heavy.com/news/2017/06/acx-cryst ... hip-photo/

 

[Nesikep]

From GB's earlier post with the Wiki article and the supposed path of the container ship, I don't know the scale of that map, but that U turn seems mighty sharp for a ship that's 700 ft long and 'handling' probably not the highest on the list of design priorities.. In the picture it shows it at 14.7 knots (is that at the location/time of the collision?)... So what is the Fitzgerald's path? I see a whole lot of talk about ACX Crystal but not about the Fitzgerald and what was going on there.

 

[Supa Dexta]

As I mentioned earlier ships on the AIS system will - should- be watching whats on the screen, and plotting a course based on who's around them, big ships don't like convergences within a mile or less from what I've seen out there. And you can have a simple alarm set that if anything is going to enter your preset area an alarm sounds - I'm non military, but lots of open ocean sailing. Solo sailing you can't stay awake 24hrs a day, so you set these things to warn you if something is going to cross your path.

When they see our courses are going to come close to one another, they radio over and usually will split the difference to alter course a few degrees, this happens miles out, so even a couple of degrees provides a lot of distance between you. Even if they're english isn't great they usually do this, and if they speak some english they usually chat a bit to ask what each other is doing - if you've been out there a long time, its nice to talk to someone else even if its just for a couple of minutes.

That said I almost nailed a huge boat one night, as I couldnt get anyone on the radio, and it was very hard to determine size and direction of the ship until I was right on top of it, I kept altering course, but it wasn't helping. Some quick maneuvers, and I fell off the back of their wake as they passed in front of me - It was a huge ship though, much larger than the 5 and 600 footers I'm used to seeing. In the pitch black I was expecting to cross in front of it, when I realized it had already crossed in front of me, there's was no way to change direction fast enough under sail so I had to aim behind it, and it was close.

 

[Bright Raven]

As I mentioned earlier ships on the AIS system will - should- be watching whats on the screen, and plotting a course based on who's around them, big ships don't like convergences within a mile or less from what I've seen out there. And you can have a simple alarm set that if anything is going to enter your preset area an alarm sounds - I'm non military, but lots of open ocean sailing. Solo sailing you can't stay awake 24hrs a day, so you set these things to warn you if something is going to cross your path.

When they see our courses are going to come close to one another, they radio over and usually will split the difference to alter course a few degrees, this happens miles out, so even a couple of degrees provides a lot of distance between you. Even if they're english isn't great they usually do this, and if they speak some english they usually chat a bit to ask what each other is doing - if you've been out there a long time, its nice to talk to someone else even if its just for a couple of minutes.

That said I almost nailed a huge boat one night, as I couldnt get anyone on the radio, and it was very hard to determine size and direction of the ship until I was right on top of it, I kept altering course, but it wasn't helping. Some quick maneuvers, and I fell off the back of their wake as they passed in front of me - It was a huge ship though, much larger than the 5 and 600 footers I'm used to seeing. In the pitch black I was expecting to cross in front of it, when I realized it had already crossed in front of me, there's was no way to change direction fast enough under sail so I had to aim behind it, and it was close.

I bet you learned from that experience. :frowns:

 

[Nesikep]

Several people I know thought of this old urban legend when we heard of this accident



US Ship: Please divert your course 0.5 degrees to the south to avoid a collision.

CDN reply: Recommend you divert your course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.

US Ship: This is the Captain of a US Navy Ship. I say again, divert your course.

CDN reply: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course!

US Ship: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS CORAL SEA*, WE ARE A LARGE WARSHIP OF THE US NAVY. DIVERT YOUR COURSE NOW!!

CDN reply: This is a lighthouse. Your call.


At least even the US navy has a sense of humour.. its posted here!
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=174

 

[Bright Raven]

Several people I know thought of this old urban legend when we heard of this accident



US Ship: Please divert your course 0.5 degrees to the south to avoid a collision.

CDN reply: Recommend you divert your course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.

US Ship: This is the Captain of a US Navy Ship. I say again, divert your course.

CDN reply: No. I say again, you divert YOUR course!

US Ship: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS CORAL SEA*, WE ARE A LARGE WARSHIP OF THE US NAVY. DIVERT YOUR COURSE NOW!!

CDN reply: This is a lighthouse. Your call.


At least even the US navy has a sense of humour.. its posted here!
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/nav_legacy.asp?id=174

Funny

 

[TexasBred]

You would certainly know about excuses CB.

Oh lawd doesn't he. But he's still an expert on all things as long as he has google. Yes it's amazing we can develop the most sophisticated ships, planes and missles in the world.....nobody does it better...yet we still have collisions, crashes and burns and explosions.......shyt happens !!!!!! Everything is not the result of a conspiracy !!!!!

BTW that shyt coming up the ship channel is moving at a snails pace controlled by tugboats. Hardly makes a wake... Not full speed in open seas.

 

[Caustic Burno]

You would certainly know about excuses CB.

Oh lawd doesn't he. But he's still an expert on all things as long as he has google. Yes it's amazing we can develop the most sophisticated ships, planes and missles in the world.....nobody does it better...yet we still have collisions, crashes and burns and explosions.......shyt happens !!!!!! Everything is not the result of a conspiracy !!!!!

BTW that shyt coming up the ship channel is moving at a snails pace controlled by tugboats. Hardly makes a wake... Not full speed in open seas.

No it is not at a snails pace and it is not being controlled by a tug boat.
TB you show your ignorance here
Go sit on the Fred Hartman bridge and be amazed by container ships navigating a 400 foot wide channel on their own along with oil tankers and barge traffic.
What I amazed at is the excuses for the event.
Seven US servicemen lost there lives to
negligence at best.
The only time shyt just happens you can bet an operator had their head
up their a$$.
TB you might watch and get educated

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CcWqWgaFKhI

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

op: op: op:

 

[True Grit Farms]

Stuff happens that you can't believe all the time. I've seen crew boats smashed in head on collisions, and each boat has two paid captains to drive them. What puzzles me is the speed the ships were traveling. If a ship - boat gets to close to me I slow down and call the vessel on channel 16 and ask the captain what their intentions are.