BIZIN
Well-known member
How do you guys think it would work bringing a bull from Kansas up into Saskatchewan? I am really really interested in these Deewall cattle and would really like to go see them.
Idaman
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BIZIN":2svhk0dl said:
Just a guess but I imagine it would depend on what time of year you moved him.If it was me I'd move him in the spring. Herfs are real cold tolerant but he would have to have a chance to grow some haircoat.
On the other hand the scenry ain't that much different. Elevation is close so he might never know the difference except for the temps. Just tell them to him in Farenheight or he might think he is freezin to death all the time.
BIZIN":43p6q4ay said:
They would work fine. As you will see from future segments of my story that is exactly what we did 30 years ago. We moved our entire purebred herd from Colorado to BC. It might be good to overwinter them for acclimation purposes before heavy use. The Nash cattle were very hearty as they were bred at about 9000 feet and wintered out, probably contributing to their disposition at that time. The other side, from the Arrow was bred primarily at Miles City so that should work good on that side.
Kit Pharo says you can move them north and west all year round but south and east only in the winter. That has been my experience as well.
Thanks to everyone who has posted here and the encouragement to continue is just that, encouragement. There have been tons of PMs and emails and most of them were kind and encouraging as well. Some children of old friends relayed some great stories about the subject breeders but I will hold them for now.
If you the readers will indulge me I would like to take a different direction with this thread but still stay on the ranching subject. There will be some on purebred cattle and the people around them but with more emphasis on our experiences on the Canadian ranch. We had great neighbors there and the Canadians on board will surely recognize some of the places if not the semi-famous people.
In the early 70s I got the urge to look for greener pastures and ended up deciding on BC Canada. The ranch we were on in Colorado had been in the family since 1864 with other roots going back to 1853. Another side of the family had come from, you guessed it, Herefordshire, England via New London, Ontario where my grandfather was born.
I went up to BC several times during those years looking at ranches. The area we liked was west of Clinton along the Frazer River. That area was famous for its grass, where they finished steers on grass, although at three or four years of age. It also was noted for its ability to winter cattle out and that really intrigued me after the 100+ inch snow winters in Colorado.
The ranch we landed on was the Canoe Creek Ranch belonging to Jack Koster and his family. This was the east half of their original ranch with the west half lying on the west side of the Frazer and that belonged to a fellow Coloradoan named Bob J.R. Maytag of the appliance company. In 1974 Bob sold his half, the Empire Valley, to a German Baroness by the name of Sophie Stegeman. The ranch had been split in the 50s when Jacks' father died and Jack and his Henry brother decided to split the ranch. On a flight out or Kamloops I recognized Bob Maytag and we conversed about what each of us were doing up there. That was before he sold to Sophie. After Sophie purchased the ranch Bob held a fairly large mortgage on it to be paid in one year from the proceeds of all the cattle sales until it was paid. Sophie refused to pay him so he was forced to take the ranch back. He started those proceedings and just before he got possession back he approached us and wanted to trade. We said no but call us when the ranch is in your possession. After he took possession he called us and we met in a few days and made the trade. He did not want to try to start his business again there as his crew had moved back to the states. We got the land, no cows and some of the machinery. We didn't realize just what we had and what we had done because I had only visited there a couple of times when Sophie wanted me to bail her out. This meeting was set up by Henry Koster, Jacks' brother who was a realtor at the time. After the signing in Kamloops Bobs' attorney turned to me and said " Just what are you going to do with a 325,000 acre ranch?" That is when it hit me and I wondered about that morning in my prayer time when I had asked the Lord what he wanted to do when Bob came to propose the trade. The verse he revealed to me said " Go down and go with them all is well I have sent them." At times I wondered about those directions.
The next day I went out to my new ranch and home and was able to hire back some of Maytags' crew who could babysit the ranch while I went back to Colorado to pack a family and arrange for the future shipping of the purbred cows and our machinery. Without my fantastic wife Connie, a childhood sweetheart this would never have been possible. In all our moves she has insisted that she not go and see the house but just move into whatever it was and make a home. She really got the test at Empire, 80 miles from pavement, no electricity, no phone, no school and only indians for employees and neighbors.
If you the readers will indulge me I would like to take a different direction with this thread but still stay on the ranching subject. There will be some on purebred cattle and the people around them but with more emphasis on our experiences on the Canadian ranch. We had great neighbors there and the Canadians on board will surely recognize some of the places if not the semi-famous people.
In the early 70s I got the urge to look for greener pastures and ended up deciding on BC Canada. The ranch we were on in Colorado had been in the family since 1864 with other roots going back to 1853. Another side of the family had come from, you guessed it, Herefordshire, England via New London, Ontario where my grandfather was born.
I went up to BC several times during those years looking at ranches. The area we liked was west of Clinton along the Frazer River. That area was famous for its grass, where they finished steers on grass, although at three or four years of age. It also was noted for its ability to winter cattle out and that really intrigued me after the 100+ inch snow winters in Colorado.
The ranch we landed on was the Canoe Creek Ranch belonging to Jack Koster and his family. This was the east half of their original ranch with the west half lying on the west side of the Frazer and that belonged to a fellow Coloradoan named Bob J.R. Maytag of the appliance company. In 1974 Bob sold his half, the Empire Valley, to a German Baroness by the name of Sophie Stegeman. The ranch had been split in the 50s when Jacks' father died and Jack and his Henry brother decided to split the ranch. On a flight out or Kamloops I recognized Bob Maytag and we conversed about what each of us were doing up there. That was before he sold to Sophie. After Sophie purchased the ranch Bob held a fairly large mortgage on it to be paid in one year from the proceeds of all the cattle sales until it was paid. Sophie refused to pay him so he was forced to take the ranch back. He started those proceedings and just before he got possession back he approached us and wanted to trade. We said no but call us when the ranch is in your possession. After he took possession he called us and we met in a few days and made the trade. He did not want to try to start his business again there as his crew had moved back to the states. We got the land, no cows and some of the machinery. We didn't realize just what we had and what we had done because I had only visited there a couple of times when Sophie wanted me to bail her out. This meeting was set up by Henry Koster, Jacks' brother who was a realtor at the time. After the signing in Kamloops Bobs' attorney turned to me and said " Just what are you going to do with a 325,000 acre ranch?" That is when it hit me and I wondered about that morning in my prayer time when I had asked the Lord what he wanted to do when Bob came to propose the trade. The verse he revealed to me said " Go down and go with them all is well I have sent them." At times I wondered about those directions.
The next day I went out to my new ranch and home and was able to hire back some of Maytags' crew who could babysit the ranch while I went back to Colorado to pack a family and arrange for the future shipping of the purbred cows and our machinery. Without my fantastic wife Connie, a childhood sweetheart this would never have been possible. In all our moves she has insisted that she not go and see the house but just move into whatever it was and make a home. She really got the test at Empire, 80 miles from pavement, no electricity, no phone, no school and only indians for employees and neighbors.
jhambley
Well-known member
I'm sure KMac will post his own photos as soon as the bull has a chance to recover from the trip. In the mean time, Jane Deewall asked that I help her post a photo of KMac's D Advance 806 bull. He just turned two.
alacattleman
Well-known member
some kind of story idaman.
LazyARanch
Well-known member
Yep, I have to say I have really enjoyed this thread! First place I come to when I get on CT!
:tiphat: Thanks to ALL of you who have contributed, please keep on..... I can't wait to read (and learn) more!
:tiphat: Thanks to ALL of you who have contributed, please keep on..... I can't wait to read (and learn) more!
Julian
Well-known member
jhambley":1tabz5kd said:
I'm sure KMac will post his own photos as soon as the bull has a chance to recover from the trip. In the mean time, Jane Deewall asked that I help her post a photo of KMac's D Advance 806 bull. He just turned two.
Had the opportunity to meet KMac and his family along with Mike and Jane Deewall when the bull was still on the trailer here in Kansas. Good looking bull and real enjoyable people.
caprock
Well-known member
Hey guys, I'm Franklin Nash's youngest daughter. I'm in the jewelry biz and about all I know about cattle is that the right one is a bonafide existential experience when its on a plate at PETER LUGER.. Other than that, they give me hives. I know you've moved past the topic, but I just wanted to say how amazed I am that my Old Man had such a lasting impact on so many and thank you all for your stories and kind words.. He was ONE in many Billion and the lessons he taught serve well in every aspect of life (I'm the one that got to go to Catholic school which was a big ole "THANKS DAD").
It also, nice to see a place where "real people" (us country types though admittedly I have a rather citified job) can converge.
You've talked about some of the crazy stories my Dad gifted us with experiencing-but I've got one for you on a whole different plane. He proof read every article my husband and I wrote and our book. Copy editors we're floored by how little work they had to do-especially when we told them our editor was an 80 year old Rancher!! He was just so damn smart, I'm still think about him with awe.
Also, there is a book (someone mentioned writing a book) that has a chapter on him, It's called "Lonely Vigil" by Walter Lord-and its a great read in general.
Anyway, Like I said I'm not a cow type and won't clutter up your boards-but it really does hit on an emotional level to see all these pictures of bulls I recognize. I'm so very proud and grateful to Mike and Jane Deewall for carry on for Dad and really for all of us..
Julie
It also, nice to see a place where "real people" (us country types though admittedly I have a rather citified job) can converge.
You've talked about some of the crazy stories my Dad gifted us with experiencing-but I've got one for you on a whole different plane. He proof read every article my husband and I wrote and our book. Copy editors we're floored by how little work they had to do-especially when we told them our editor was an 80 year old Rancher!! He was just so damn smart, I'm still think about him with awe.
Also, there is a book (someone mentioned writing a book) that has a chapter on him, It's called "Lonely Vigil" by Walter Lord-and its a great read in general.
Anyway, Like I said I'm not a cow type and won't clutter up your boards-but it really does hit on an emotional level to see all these pictures of bulls I recognize. I'm so very proud and grateful to Mike and Jane Deewall for carry on for Dad and really for all of us..
Julie
TexasBred
Well-known member
Dang all of a sudden we're having an online family reunion.
alacattleman
Well-known member
pretty neat aint it :cowboy:TexasBred":iuc308em said:
Herefords.US
Well-known member
alacattleman":zfz909ka said:
Yeah, we've had some of it at its near worst on CT - but this is this medium at its best!
Don't get any better than this!
I feel like I'm back on the side porch with my great aunt listening to her stories about growing up in the West!
George
TexasBred
Well-known member
alacattleman":3crftvws said:
I reckon so if you're a hereford breeder or know any of these folks. Unfortunately I'm in the dark. (which ain't unusual either. :lol2: )
BIZIN
Well-known member
Keep the stories coming Idaman!
WichitaLineMan
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I'd like to hear some stories or more on how Mr. Nash "roughed" his cattle through the winters in Colorado.
I sure don't live in Colorado, but I think we have taken a lot of the vigor and "doing ability" out of our cattle by the way we pamper them. I try not to. I have stated before that my program verges on being called "benign neglect". This is the first winter I went totally without hay. It actually worked out pretty nicely. The experiment has convinced me that this is no land for fall calvers and I will probably phase out that portion of my operation. With cattle prices where they are now, I have a chance to just sell those cows (commercial and Hereford) for a decent price right now.
I sure don't live in Colorado, but I think we have taken a lot of the vigor and "doing ability" out of our cattle by the way we pamper them. I try not to. I have stated before that my program verges on being called "benign neglect". This is the first winter I went totally without hay. It actually worked out pretty nicely. The experiment has convinced me that this is no land for fall calvers and I will probably phase out that portion of my operation. With cattle prices where they are now, I have a chance to just sell those cows (commercial and Hereford) for a decent price right now.
A big Idaho welcome to Julie Nash. You were young enough that we weren't well acquainted but there are some great stories on Franklins youngest daughter from the well of Franklin memories. Franklin was a serious subject but without seeing his humor and potential humor you missed a big part of the man.
Another area I have not touched on in regard to Franklin was his esperiences in WW2. We often talked at great length about those experiences and since I was serving in the ANG at the time(pre Nam) he obviously really wanted me to know where he was coming from. He was originally in the US army but after his first leave and trip to Australia he applied to be reassigned to the Australian Coast Watches. Their assignment was to hire local native fishermen and their boats and then spy on the Japanese and radio in their information every night. This meant that he was out there alone with the natives for literally a year at a time but sometimes only months as well. His partner was the man who picked up the crew of PT 109 of Kennedy fame. That was another part of their assignment, to pick up downed pilots and wrecked PT boat crews. They ate mostly turtle eggs and became quite proficient at their preparation. At times he said they could sit literally on the end of a Japanese runway on some island and count the planes coming in and departing. The Japanese never patrolled their perimeters so they were pretty safe. Franklin said that early in the war the US was able to crack the Japanese message code and they read all their encoded messages and the Japs never figured it out. He was over there in this position for several years I believe.
Here is where the story gets really controversial and this heresy may get me thrown off of CT. Franklin was assigned to a unit after the fighting had stopped that had a judge that was to decide the cases of the local natives in a sort of court. So with Franklins recent experience with the natives, the Judge asked Franklin to serve as a court investigator. In the course of those investigations it became evident that the major cause of the disputes was caused from the local native women complaining about the lack of mansculinity of their local men. Franklin said that the women had evolved into really large beauties. The men on the other hand had atrophied to the point they were almost steers. Franklin felt that the reason for this was the constant inbreeding of the natives with a closed population on those small islands. One of the main disputes was the practice of the women from one island kidnapping the men from another island for certain purposes and then holding them hostages.
In our conversations he said that the same was somewhat true in line breeding cattle. I agreed then and am more convinced now especially when I lived among the North Americam natives in small local reserves where you see all sorts of genetic abnormalities. We discussed this at a much more private level but that is not for CT posts.
Another area I have not touched on in regard to Franklin was his esperiences in WW2. We often talked at great length about those experiences and since I was serving in the ANG at the time(pre Nam) he obviously really wanted me to know where he was coming from. He was originally in the US army but after his first leave and trip to Australia he applied to be reassigned to the Australian Coast Watches. Their assignment was to hire local native fishermen and their boats and then spy on the Japanese and radio in their information every night. This meant that he was out there alone with the natives for literally a year at a time but sometimes only months as well. His partner was the man who picked up the crew of PT 109 of Kennedy fame. That was another part of their assignment, to pick up downed pilots and wrecked PT boat crews. They ate mostly turtle eggs and became quite proficient at their preparation. At times he said they could sit literally on the end of a Japanese runway on some island and count the planes coming in and departing. The Japanese never patrolled their perimeters so they were pretty safe. Franklin said that early in the war the US was able to crack the Japanese message code and they read all their encoded messages and the Japs never figured it out. He was over there in this position for several years I believe.
Here is where the story gets really controversial and this heresy may get me thrown off of CT. Franklin was assigned to a unit after the fighting had stopped that had a judge that was to decide the cases of the local natives in a sort of court. So with Franklins recent experience with the natives, the Judge asked Franklin to serve as a court investigator. In the course of those investigations it became evident that the major cause of the disputes was caused from the local native women complaining about the lack of mansculinity of their local men. Franklin said that the women had evolved into really large beauties. The men on the other hand had atrophied to the point they were almost steers. Franklin felt that the reason for this was the constant inbreeding of the natives with a closed population on those small islands. One of the main disputes was the practice of the women from one island kidnapping the men from another island for certain purposes and then holding them hostages.
In our conversations he said that the same was somewhat true in line breeding cattle. I agreed then and am more convinced now especially when I lived among the North Americam natives in small local reserves where you see all sorts of genetic abnormalities. We discussed this at a much more private level but that is not for CT posts.
rocket2222
Well-known member
Herefords.US":3bpyk82z said:
I agree, great stuff, hope they all stay a while. You need a thick skin around here sometimes, from the looks of the cattle they're raising I don't think they have to worry to much. ;-)
WichitaLineMan":3n2p2u8y said:
Mr. Nash wintered his cattle out basically because his ranch allowed and required it. At the 9000 foot elevation in the area of Colorado where he lived they got very little snow as say compared to the Wet Mountain Valley where I lived. They could depend on the wind to bare off the ridges enough to let the cattle survive and almost prosper. Once a week he would make a feed round to those cows with protein pellets with a salt control. The pellets were especially made for him from fourth cutting alfalfa.
He bought literally hundreds of tons of hay from us but that only went to his selling bulls and keeping heifer calves.
I am totally with you on this low input way of raising cattle. One half of our herd here in Idaho are fed April and May on requirement of the BLM and the other half run out all winter. We even let the fall calves go with their mothers and they seem as heavy as if they were fed hay all winter. I think they wean themselves in early March and then utilize the greening up grass just as well as the cow. We have been at this practice since 1988.
Kit Pharo of Pharo Cattle Co. has a whole organization dedicated to this practice and its' implementation. Check his website and his Herd Quitter meetings.
KMacGinley
Well-known member
jhambley":3m5drtew said:
I'm sure KMac will post his own photos as soon as the bull has a chance to recover from the trip. In the mean time, Jane Deewall asked that I help her post a photo of KMac's D Advance 806 bull. He just turned two.
I am back from Kansas and yes, back in the Hereford business.
I have two Jerry Hambley horned hereford cows and a Cooksley polled cow. In the next few years, we will be turning out some baldies of Ohlde and Deewall breeding and growing our Hereford herd, which would go a lot faster if Deewalls ever have heifers for sale. I know that Jane and Mike are reading this thread, so I want to thank you for the bull, and Lynn really thanks you for the Lemon Bread, which she appreciated much more than the bull.
Mike and Jane are some great people and did what they said they were going to do, which I really appreciate. Tim Ohlde really liked him, as he spent a couple of days there in the barn. The bull has a great disposition and I think was greatly appreciated by all who viewed him.
Got to see Julian's Red angus cattle. Wow! Great red angus, if you are looking for the red's you need to check them out!
Hauled home 3 angus bulls from the sale for people in Indiana and Illinois, had to get the Hereford off the trailer to transfer one of the bulls and did it at Gary Kaper's. When that Horned bull came off the trailer, I think I heard all of the Shorthorn bulls flee from the barn, but it was dark, so I couldn't really tell.
If you are interested in learning about our Canadian Ranch, Empire Valley, then google Churn Creek Grasslands and read about our winter pasture and see a few good pictures. Across the creek to the North lies the mighty Gang Ranch and to the south the rest of Empire Valley.
Our ranch had no exterior or boundary fences. The fences were all natural barriers like unscalable Churn Creek. That creek separated us from the Gang Ranch for seventy-six miles which was the length of both of our ranges. You could ride from one end of it to the other in a day if you started before daylight , changed horses at noon and ended about dark. I know this because our older son rode this trip in one day at the age of fourteen. He had started going to the mountains with the cowboy indians at the age of twelve, much to his mothers chagrin. He is without a doubt the most natural and gifted horseman and cowman I have ever known since he never knew anything else. All of our present neighbors rely on his rope and cattle abilities. He is a keen appraiser of the condition of our range cows and tells me " they are happy or P'oed." There were no roads anywhere near this route so when you left the barn you saddled up in the spring and returned in the fall. In fact when I took food and hay to the crews at the cow camps I drove 265 miles to get there. I had to go out to the major highway and then around through Lilloett and along Bridge Lake to get to the Relay Creek cow camp. My family and I lived many summers at that camp with the indian cowboys and a bunch of horses and dogs. We were usually there from July one through September one. This range was called Tyaughton or in Shuswap good little things from the ground. The legend was that early winter snows trapped a group of indians in that valley and they survuved on rock chucks hence they came from the ground.
Our ranch had no exterior or boundary fences. The fences were all natural barriers like unscalable Churn Creek. That creek separated us from the Gang Ranch for seventy-six miles which was the length of both of our ranges. You could ride from one end of it to the other in a day if you started before daylight , changed horses at noon and ended about dark. I know this because our older son rode this trip in one day at the age of fourteen. He had started going to the mountains with the cowboy indians at the age of twelve, much to his mothers chagrin. He is without a doubt the most natural and gifted horseman and cowman I have ever known since he never knew anything else. All of our present neighbors rely on his rope and cattle abilities. He is a keen appraiser of the condition of our range cows and tells me " they are happy or P'oed." There were no roads anywhere near this route so when you left the barn you saddled up in the spring and returned in the fall. In fact when I took food and hay to the crews at the cow camps I drove 265 miles to get there. I had to go out to the major highway and then around through Lilloett and along Bridge Lake to get to the Relay Creek cow camp. My family and I lived many summers at that camp with the indian cowboys and a bunch of horses and dogs. We were usually there from July one through September one. This range was called Tyaughton or in Shuswap good little things from the ground. The legend was that early winter snows trapped a group of indians in that valley and they survuved on rock chucks hence they came from the ground.
